9 Unbiblical Statements That Christians Believe

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Shane Pruitt

Jesus follower, Husband, Father, Speaker, Writer


  1. Just FYI, LDS (Mormons) don’t worship Joseph Smith. We was a prophet like Moses in the Old Testament. We worship Jesus Christ.

    • I thought they worshiped Adam as the god of this world and they all hoped to become gods themselves someday so they can populate other worlds with their offspring.

    • LDS has added to the Bible, when it is stated in the Bible that nothing should be added or deleted from God’s Word.

      • You realize the Bible its self was pieced together from various other books LONG after Jesus was crucified. Its not like Jesus died and two years later poof the Bible. The Catholic church just got together and decided which gospels they liked the most and made into one book which is the Bible we all know today.

        • The Holy Scriptures were never “pieced together”. Neither did the “Catholic church just got together and decided …” How about learn your history on how the Scriptures contained in the Holy Bible actually were recognized and cannonized before opening your mouth and confirming for everyone your crass ignorance.

          • Uh Yes they were. Christians are no different than liberals, They make up their own facts and have no sense of history. Mentally, Christians are no different than liberals.

          • In duet it says not to add to so does that mean that everything after duet is of satan

          • The first thing one does in order to either discredit the authority of God and create credibility for their own religious view is to attack Scripture, but in such a way as to ‘believe’ nobody will recognize it as an attack on Scripture. It’s the same tool Satan used against Eve in the Garden.

            The next thing one does is attack the person who defends Scripture with insults and sarcasm, which the authority of Scripture condemns. It doesn’t really matter, in this context, who’s right or wrong about the canonicity of Scripture when Godly love is rejected.

            The authority of Scripture clearly states; If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body [a]to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing. (1 Cor. 13:1-3)

            Once this command becomes meaningless, so does the authority of Scripture and any other argument becomes equally meaningless.

          • I would Never call you ignorant, but very uninformed. Read the Apostles and the early church Fathers. The Catholic church gave us the Bible.It is still the only church that is the same all over the world. And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. It is the One,True Church, instituted by Christ.We all have the DUTY to find the true church. Other denominations have good people and some good teaching, but the Catholic Church has the fullness of Doctrine, and Many graces to aid in Our journey back to our creator , God Our Father.;

          • That’s some amazingly strong and pure “Jesus Love” there. I better find me a church immediately and get me saved.

            Stegokitty, the Bible was absolutely pieced together from documents written in four languages. Latin, Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew. As a matter of fact, the first printed and singularly bound Bible came to be in October of 1454. There were two versions, first the ’31 line indulgence,’ then the 40 to 42 line printing. It looking quite unlike the King James VERSION you now probably read. Considering it’s name, you may want to use that as a search element in order to learn a bit more about your King James VERSION, become a bit more informed and make a few decisions about whom you label as being “crass” or “ignorant.”

            Now, considering the King James VERSION was assembled by no less than 47 scholars, many not being Christian, it is a well known fact that the King James VERSION in many places actually misrepresents the original texts due to there, many times, not being words in the ENGLISH language that any of those original four languages could adequately and accurately convey and translate effectively to English.

            These are well known facts, not fabrications or as Kevin Pearson, below would say, “My own facts not based in history.”

            I can’t imagine ever becoming the Christian I see in this comment section.

            You can find my facts here. If you think the admins at Wikipedia would let any half wit contribute to the Gutenberg Bible entry without strict verification, you should probably skip the link.

          • Whoever mocks the poor insults his Maker; he who is glad at calamity will not go unpunished. Take heed Stegokitty

          • Seriously?!? Although I may agree with you about what you’re saying, your delivery is hateful. Not seasoned full of grace. Shame on you. I would rather face God one day with some wrong doctrine and a humble loving attitude than face him with “all the right answers” having treated others poorly.

          • Actually You are wrong. It was pieced together by the church. Some left out. Some not. On the whim of the Catholic Church. Do your homework

          • Stegokitty. Please explain the Gutenberg Bible, its sources, it publishers and why certain text were included and certain ones excluded. This first printing of what you call “the Bible” had a profound impact on 15th Century European, mostly illiterate society about which the ruling theocracy worried a great deal. Why so? Why would being able to read the Bible be of such great concern to priests?

          • Alex Colvin: I have posted a long excerpt about the Gutenberg Bible as well as the Bibles that were written before it.

          • Can’t give solid sources, but my understanding is that the Bible was “compiled” (rather than “pieced together”) based on long-standing tradition that made it canonical long before it was ratified by the church. All of the OT canon developed on the authority of the writings recognized by the Jewish community since the time of Moses. By the time the early church came together to ratify it, they were only officially stamping what was already understood as holy and authoritative. As for the apocrypha and the NT canon, I can’t say. Got to do more research. But I’ve gathered that the NT, at any rate, was compiled in some similar way. Worth studying though. A reliable, historical Christian source might be “The Promise and the Blessing” by Michael A. Harbin.

          • Stegokitty. You do realize the Holy Bible was written from 200 to 300AD by Priests and that many “Books” were not included for various reasons. Basically J.C. & THE BOYZ is correct in his post. The Bible was compiled as a primer for the benefit of Priests because the vast majority of the populous could not read or write.

          • I hate religion for this reason and that’s why I’m proud to be a Christian. To get facts straitht, the Gospel is the Gospel. Only change it ever has gone through is the translation. Second, catholic church, really they are gonna try and say that the church built not on God, but murder, betrayal, hypocrisy, thievery, persecution, all against us Christians has anything to do with the Gospel or let alone the track that we are on please. The onlythING they are good at is brainwashing people to think they are Christians but yet they don’t even know that Christianity isn’t a religion and true Christianity doesn’t put up walls and barriers between them and God, I’m talking of denominations by the way it doesn’t exist in true Christianity. Theyou don’t even know what the difference is between Christianity and religion (gag).

          • Check out the Dead Sea Scrolls 🙂 there’s actually an exhibition at the California Science Center right now…they’re on display 🙂

          • Wow you’re DUMB. The gospels were specifically chosen by the church by the council of Nicaea…centuries after the death of Jesus. You obviously don’t know history either.

          • There really isn’t any need for you to be so harsh and rude when commenting about Gods Word.
            What is wrong with you?

          • It is possible to state you opinion without being hateful. If every word that comes from your mouth were always 100% truthful, yet you spoke them without love, you would never gain a convert for the Lord Jesus Christ. Love one another.

          • Everyone commenting about the Catholic church and claiming that the bible came out of the Catholic church REALLY needs to research the history of the Eastern Orthodox church.

        • True, and then the Protestants got together and dropped 5 of those books.

          • 7 and added a few words. I heard the kjv adds to the passage where Jesus gives us the Lords prayer too

          • The King James version was closely aligned with the original Hebrew and Greek texts. Therefore, it IS God’s word.

          • Debbie, you have to be kidding, right? Anyone who is anyone knows that the KJV has some series translation issues. At the time, it was the best. But since then we have discovered many more manuscripts and through the process of textual criticism we now have much better translations closer to the original hebrew and greek.

          • Actually, Protestants didn’t eviscerate the Bible as a group project. Luther, on his own authority, removed seven entire books (those that did not match up with his own theology) and portions of Daniel and Esther. In his German translation (the KJV is a direct English translation) He added the word “allien” or alone to Romans 3:28, to support his heretical doctrine of sola fide. He attempted to remove James entirely, as it directly contradicts his alteration of Paul’s letter to the Romans, but there was too much objection. He refers to James as “An Epistle of straw”.

            Interestingly, 340 of the references Christ makes in the NT are from the Septuagint (the Greek translation used by Jews through most of the world and the Roman empire, that included all the books that the Catholic and orthodox canon include) and only 34 from the Mesoretic Text – which Luther used in part as justification for removing parts of the Bible. Most Protestants have no idea that their Bible is incomplete.

        • Peace to you! :). By “Catholic” some people may think it is the “Roman” Catholic Church, under the Pope. What did happen though is that all the bishops gathered to discuss the canon of Scripture, largely ratifying what the churches were already reading. The Pope of Rome separated himself (and his churches) from the early Church – which included all Christianity. The other Church leaders remained in communion, and still do today – as the Orthodox Church. It wasn’t until Rome schismed in 1054 that “the Catholic Church” became its own entity and went on in its own way, under the various Popes.

        • The Old Testament of the Bible is the Hebrew Torah. The New Testament was written by Jesus’ apostles who remained alive after His Crucifixion. You need to do some research before publishing such nonsense.

          • So do you. the Old Testament is the Hebrew Tenakh made up of the Torah (gen-Deut.) writings (history books) and the prophets. The NT was written by more than just Jesus’ apostles. Luke, Mark, and Hebrews author were not apostles.

          • Though some say that the New Testament was written 100-300 years after Christ died, the truth is that it was written before the close of the first century by those who either knew Christ personally, had encountered him, or were under the direction of those who were His disciples.

            In the article When were the gospels written and by whom?, I demonstrated that Matthew, Mark, and Luke were all written before 70 A.D. Basically, the book of Acts was written by Luke. But Luke fails to mention the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., nor does he mention the deaths of James (A.D. 62), Paul (A.D. 64), and Peter (A.D. 65). Since Acts is a historical document dealing with the church, we would naturally expect such important events to be recorded if Acts was written after the fact. Since Acts 1:1-2 mentions that it is the second writing of Luke, the gospel of Luke was written even earlier. Also, Jesus prophesied the destruction of the temple in the gospels: “As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down,” (Luke 21:6, see also Matt. 24:2; Mark 13:2). Undoubtedly, if Matthew, Mark, and Luke were written after the destruction of the Temple, they would have included the fulfillment of Christ’s prophecy in them. Since they don’t, it is very strong indication that they were written before 70 A.D.

            The gospel of John is supposed to have been written by John the apostle. It is written from the perspective of an eyewitness of the events of Christ’s life. The John Rylands papyrus fragment 52 of John’s gospel dated in the year 135 contains portions of John 18:31-33, 37-38. This fragment was found in Egypt and a considerable amount of time is needed for the circulation of the gospel before it reached Egypt. It is the last of the gospels and appears to have been written in the 80’s to 90’s.

            Of important note is the lack of mention of the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 A.D. But this is understandable since John does not mention Jesus’ prophecy of the destruction of the Temple. He was not focusing on historical events. Instead, he focused on the theological aspect of the person of Christ and listed His miracles and words that affirmed Christ’s deity. This makes perfect sense since he already knew of the previously written gospels.

            Furthermore, 1, 2, and 3 John all contain the same writing style as the gospel of John and the book of Revelation which is supposed to have been written in the late 80’s or early 90’s.
            Paul’s Writings ~
            Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians,
            Colossians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon

            Paul the Apostle was a convert to Christianity. The book of Acts speaks of his conversion in Acts 9. Since Acts was written before 70 A.D. and Paul wrote the Pauline Epistles and we know that Paul died in 64 A.D., the Pauline Epistles were all written before that date. Furthermore, in 1 Cor. 15:3-4 is an early creed of the Christian church where Paul mentions that Jesus had died and risen. “For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,” (1 Cor. 15:3-4). Notice that he says he received this information. From whom did he receive it? Most probably the apostles since he had a lot of interaction with them. This means that Paul received the gospel account from the eyewitnesses. They were, of course contemporaries; they all died before the turn of the century. Therefore, their writings were completed within the lifetime of the apostles of Jesus.

            It is not known for sure who wrote the book of Hebrews. Authorship has been proposed for Paul, Barnabas (Acts 4:36), Apollos (Acts 18:24), etc. The only geographical area mentioned is Italy (Heb. 13:24). The latest possible date for the writing of Hebrews is A.D. 95 but could have been written as early as A.D. 67. The book of Hebrews speaks of the sacrifice by the High Priest in the present tense (Heb. 5:1-3; Heb. 7:27) possibly signifying that the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple in 70 A.D. had not yet happened.

            This epistles claims to have been written by James, “James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad, greetings,” (James 1:1). The question is, “Which James?” Is it James, the son of Zebedee (Matt. 10:2-3); James, the son of Alphaeus (Matt. 10:2-3), or the most commonly and accepted James who was the brother of Jesus? “Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us?” (Matt. 13:55,56). Notice that the context of the verses suggest immediate family since it mentions Jesus’ Mother, brothers, and sisters. Also, see Gal. 1:18,19 which says “Then three years later I went up to Jerusalem to become acquainted with Cephas, and stayed with him fifteen days. But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother.” It is probable that James didn’t believe in Jesus as the Messiah until Jesus appeared to him after His resurrection as is mentioned in 1 Cor. 15:7, “then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles.”

            James was martyred by the order of the high priest Ananus after the death of the “procurator Festus in A.D. 61 (Josephus, Ant. 20. 9).” Therefore, the epistle of James was written before A.D. 61.1
            1 and 2 Peter

            Both epistles clearly state that they were authored by Peter, an eyewitness of Jesus’ life and post resurrection appearances. Though there have been some who have doubted the authorship of these two epistles, the clear opening statements of each epistle tell us Peter was the author. “Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus…”, (1 Pet. 1:1) and “Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours…” (2 Pet. 1:1). It certainly seems most logical that Peter is indeed the author of the letters that bear his name.

            Peter died in Rome during Nero’s persecution of Christians around 64 AD, so the epistles were obviously written before that time.
            1, 2, 3 John

            The writer of 1 John does not identify himself in the letter. The writer of 2 and 3 John refers to himself as “the elder,” (2 John 1; 3 John 1). Regarding the first epistle, authorship can reasonably be determined to be that of John the Apostle. The opening of John is written from the perspective of someone who was there with Jesus (John 1:1-4). Also, “Eusebius (Ecclesiastical History, 3.39) says of Papias, a hearer of John, and a friend of Polycarp, ‘He used testimonies from the First Epistle of John. Irenaeus, according to Eusebius (Ecclesiastical History, 5.8), often quoted this Epistle. So in his work Against Heresies (3.15; 5, 8) he quotes from John by name, 1 John 2:18… Clement of Alexandria (Miscellanies, 2.66, p. 464) refers to 1 Jn 5:16, as in John’s larger Epistle.'”2 “In the earliest canonical lists, dating from the end of the second century, 1 John already appears. Indeed, 1 John is quoted as authoritative by Bishop Polycarp of Smyrna [a disciple of John the apostle] before the middle of the second century. The attestation of 2 John is almost as good. There is no second-century reference to 3 John, but that is not surprising, since it deals with a specific, local issue.”3 Furthermore, the style of the three epistles is very similar to that of the gospel of John. 1 John mentions the “word of life” (1 John 1:1) as does the gospel of John 1:1, etc.

            It appears that the epistles were written after the Gospel of John since the epistles seem to assume a knowledge of the gospel facts.

            Date of writing varies from A.D. 60 to the early 90’s.4

            Jude identifies himself as the brother of James (Jude 1). It is most likely that Jude, in true Christian humility, does not want to equate himself as the brother of Jesus as he is traditionally held to be and seems to be supported by scripture: “Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?” (Matt. 13:55).

          • Actually, only the first five books (the Pentateuch) of the OT are the Torah. Torah can also refer to the entirety of Rabbinic law.

          • The word “Torah” is a tricky one, because it can mean different things in different contexts. In its most limited sense, “Torah” refers to the Five Books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. But the word “torah” can also be used to refer to the entire Jewish bible (the body of scripture known to non-Jews as the Old Testament and to Jews as the Tanakh or Written Torah), or in its broadest sense, to the whole body of Jewish law and teachings.

          • Debbie, good job using ctrl+c and ctrl+v on those posts. Too bad all of your post has nothing to do with the actual points raised, nor does it reconcile your mind-baffling sentence of “The King James version was closely aligned with the original Hebrew and Greek texts” which makes no sense and is entirely false.

        • J.C. are you and the boyz deceived and wish to deceive others in your Popish assertions? The Bible I, an English speaking Biblical scholar use is the scriptures as translated from the original Hebrew and Greek and has 198 Appendixes. It’s called the Companion Bible, is not copyrighted and is supported by the Strong’s Concordance. Want to know more? Come to Sabbath Night Bible Studies and learn more. https://www.facebook.com/SabbathNightBibleStudies?fref=ts

        • It seems you have been reading too much of Dan Brown and bought into his line of ignorant thinking.

        • What you wrote is untrue. The first five books of the Bible were written by Moses. Most of the Bible is composed of Hebrew Scriptures that had been meticulously copied by scribes over many centuries and which were in use at the time of Christ. The New Testament contains the fulfillment of much of the Hebrew Scriptures by the life, death, and resurrection of the Messiah, which was prophesied by the Hebrew Scriptures, inspired by the Holy Spirit. The New Testament is largely drawn from the Hebrew Scriptures that preceded the time of the apostles. Prior to Catholicism, councils of bishops met and made egregious mistakes by compromising the Hebrew Scriptures and separating the early One New Man congregations. It was Jesus’ prayer that Jews and gentile believers be one in Him, free from the regulations and ordinances that once divided us, while maintaining the Commandments and moral laws of G-d, based on love. Get into it, and believe the Word of G-d with correct discernment of the Holy Spirit.

        • and all of that piecing together was in God’s plan and the important pieces that God meant for us to know or what is put in there because God is in control of everything and even uses evil people as tools sometimes which is a theme through the Bible as well.

        • Not true, mon frer. Do some research and background checking. Research the reason why it is called the “King James VERSION,” it may help you to avoid further embarrassment, and possibly the subject of name calling by others.

          • http://WWW.GREATSITE.COM

            The fascinating story of how we got the Bible in its present form actually starts thousands of years ago, as briefly outlined in our Timeline of Bible Translation History. As a background study, we recommend that you first review our discussion of the Pre-Reformation History of the Bible from 1,400 B.C. to 1,400 A.D., which covers the transmission of the scripture through the original languages of Hebrew and Greek, and the 1,000 years of the Dark & Middle Ages when the Word was trapped in only Latin. Our starting point in this discussion of Bible history, however, is the advent of the scripture in the English language with the “Morning Star of the Reformation”, John Wycliffe.

            The first hand-written English language Bible manuscripts were produced in the 1380’s AD by John Wycliffe, an Oxford professor, scholar, and theologian. Wycliffe, (also spelled “Wycliff” & “Wyclif”), was well-known throughout Europe for his opposition to the teaching of the organized Church, which he believed to be contrary to the Bible. With the help of his followers, called the Lollards, and his assistant Purvey, and many other faithful scribes, Wycliffe produced dozens of English language manuscript copies of the scriptures. They were translated out of the Latin Vulgate, which was the only source text available to Wycliffe. The Pope was so infuriated by his teachings and his translation of the Bible into English, that 44 years after Wycliffe had died, he ordered the bones to be dug-up, crushed, and scattered in the river!

            One of Wycliffe’s followers, John Hus, actively promoted Wycliffe’s ideas: that people should be permitted to read the Bible in their own language, and they should oppose the tyranny of the Roman church that threatened anyone possessing a non-Latin Bible with execution. Hus was burned at the stake in 1415, with Wycliffe’s manuscript Bibles used as kindling for the fire. The last words of John Hus were that, “in 100 years, God will raise up a man whose calls for reform cannot be suppressed.” Almost exactly 100 years later, in 1517, Martin Luther nailed his famous 95 Theses of Contention (a list of 95 issues of heretical theology and crimes of the Roman Catholic Church) into the church door at Wittenberg. The prophecy of Hus had come true! Martin Luther went on to be the first person to translate and publish the Bible in the commonly-spoken dialect of the German people; a translation more appealing than previous German Biblical translations. Foxe’s Book of Martyrs records that in that same year, 1517, seven people were burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church for the crime of teaching their children to say the Lord’s Prayer in English rather than Latin.

            Johann Gutenberg invented the printing press in the 1450’s, and the first book to ever be printed was a Latin language Bible, printed in Mainz, Germany. Gutenberg’s Bibles were surprisingly beautiful, as each leaf Gutenberg printed was later colorfully hand-illuminated. Born as “Johann Gensfleisch” (John Gooseflesh), he preferred to be known as “Johann Gutenberg” (John Beautiful Mountain). Ironically, though he had created what many believe to be the most important invention in history, Gutenberg was a victim of unscrupulous business associates who took control of his business and left him in poverty. Nevertheless, the invention of the movable-type printing press meant that Bibles and books could finally be effectively produced in large quantities in a short period of time. This was essential to the success of the Reformation.

            In the 1490’s another Oxford professor, and the personal physician to King Henry the 7th and 8th, Thomas Linacre, decided to learn Greek. After reading the Gospels in Greek, and comparing it to the Latin Vulgate, he wrote in his diary, “Either this (the original Greek) is not the Gospel… or we are not Christians.” The Latin had become so corrupt that it no longer even preserved the message of the Gospel… yet the Church still threatened to kill anyone who read the scripture in any language other than Latin… though Latin was not an original language of the scriptures.

            In 1496, John Colet, another Oxford professor and the son of the Mayor of London, started reading the New Testament in Greek and translating it into English for his students at Oxford, and later for the public at Saint Paul’s Cathedral in London. The people were so hungry to hear the Word of God in a language they could understand, that within six months there were 20,000 people packed in the church and at least that many outside trying to get in! (Sadly, while the enormous and beautiful Saint Paul’s Cathedral remains the main church in London today, as of 2003, typical Sunday morning worship attendance is only around 200 people… and most of them are tourists). Fortunately for Colet, he was a powerful man with friends in high places, so he amazingly managed to avoid execution.

            In considering the experiences of Linacre and Colet, the great scholar Erasmus was so moved to correct the corrupt Latin Vulgate, that in 1516, with the help of printer John Froben, he published a Greek-Latin Parallel New Testament. The Latin part was not the corrupt Vulgate, but his own fresh rendering of the text from the more accurate and reliable Greek, which he had managed to collate from a half-dozen partial old Greek New Testament manuscripts he had acquired. This milestone was the first non-Latin Vulgate text of the scripture to be produced in a millennium… and the first ever to come off a printing press. The 1516 Greek-Latin New Testament of Erasmus further focused attention on just how corrupt and inaccurate the Latin Vulgate had become, and how important it was to go back and use the original Greek (New Testament) and original Hebrew (Old Testament) languages to maintain accuracy… and to translate them faithfully into the languages of the common people, whether that be English, German, or any other tongue. No sympathy for this “illegal activity” was to be found from Rome… even as the words of Pope Leo X’s declaration that “the fable of Christ was quite profitable to him” continued through the years to infuriate the people of God.

            William Tyndale was the Captain of the Army of Reformers, and was their spiritual leader. Tyndale holds the distinction of being the first man to ever print the New Testament in the English language. Tyndale was a true scholar and a genius, so fluent in eight languages that it was said one would think any one of them to be his native tongue. He is frequently referred to as the “Architect of the English Language”, (even more so than William Shakespeare) as so many of the phrases Tyndale coined are still in our language today.

            Martin Luther had a small head-start on Tyndale, as Luther declared his intolerance for the Roman Church’s corruption on Halloween in 1517, by nailing his 95 Theses of Contention to the Wittenberg Church door. Luther, who would be exiled in the months following the Diet of Worms Council in 1521 that was designed to martyr him, would translate the New Testament into German for the first time from the 1516 Greek-Latin New Testament of Erasmus, and publish it in September of 1522. Luther also published a German Pentateuch in 1523, and another edition of the German New Testament in 1529. In the 1530’s he would go on to publish the entire Bible in German.

            William Tyndale wanted to use the same 1516 Erasmus text as a source to translate and print the New Testament in English for the first time in history. Tyndale showed up on Luther’s doorstep in Germany in 1525, and by year’s end had translated the New Testament into English. Tyndale had been forced to flee England, because of the wide-spread rumor that his English New Testament project was underway, causing inquisitors and bounty hunters to be constantly on Tyndale’s trail to arrest him and prevent his project. God foiled their plans, and in 1525-1526 the Tyndale New Testament became the first printed edition of the scripture in the English language. Subsequent printings of the Tyndale New Testament in the 1530’s were often elaborately illustrated.

            They were burned as soon as the Bishop could confiscate them, but copies trickled through and actually ended up in the bedroom of King Henry VIII. The more the King and Bishop resisted its distribution, the more fascinated the public at large became. The church declared it contained thousands of errors as they torched hundreds of New Testaments confiscated by the clergy, while in fact, they burned them because they could find no errors at all. One risked death by burning if caught in mere possession of Tyndale’s forbidden books.

            Having God’s Word available to the public in the language of the common man, English, would have meant disaster to the church. No longer would they control access to the scriptures. If people were able to read the Bible in their own tongue, the church’s income and power would crumble. They could not possibly continue to get away with selling indulgences (the forgiveness of sins) or selling the release of loved ones from a church-manufactured “Purgatory”. People would begin to challenge the church’s authority if the church were exposed as frauds and thieves. The contradictions between what God’s Word said, and what the priests taught, would open the public’s eyes and the truth would set them free from the grip of fear that the institutional church held. Salvation through faith, not works or donations, would be understood. The need for priests would vanish through the priesthood of all believers. The veneration of church-canonized Saints and Mary would be called into question. The availability of the scriptures in English was the biggest threat imaginable to the wicked church. Neither side would give up without a fight.

            Today, there are only two known copies left of Tyndale’s 1525-26 First Edition. Any copies printed prior to 1570 are extremely valuable. Tyndale’s flight was an inspiration to freedom-loving Englishmen who drew courage from the 11 years that he was hunted. Books and Bibles flowed into England in bales of cotton and sacks of flour. Ironically, Tyndale’s biggest customer was the King’s men, who would buy up every copy available to burn them… and Tyndale used their money to print even more! In the end, Tyndale was caught: betrayed by an Englishman that he had befriended. Tyndale was incarcerated for 500 days before he was strangled and burned at the stake in 1536. Tyndale’s last words were, “Oh Lord, open the King of England’s eyes”. This prayer would be answered just three years later in 1539, when King Henry VIII finally allowed, and even funded, the printing of an English Bible known as the “Great Bible”. But before that could happen…

            Myles Coverdale and John “Thomas Matthew” Rogers had remained loyal disciples the last six years of Tyndale’s life, and they carried the English Bible project forward and even accelerated it. Coverdale finished translating the Old Testament, and in 1535 he printed the first complete Bible in the English language, making use of Luther’s German text and the Latin as sources. Thus, the first complete English Bible was printed on October 4, 1535, and is known as the Coverdale Bible.

            John Rogers went on to print the second complete English Bible in 1537. It was, however, the first English Bible translated from the original Biblical languages of Hebrew & Greek. He printed it under the pseudonym “Thomas Matthew”, (an assumed name that had actually been used by Tyndale at one time) as a considerable part of this Bible was the translation of Tyndale, whose writings had been condemned by the English authorities. It is a composite made up of Tyndale’s Pentateuch and New Testament (1534-1535 edition) and Coverdale’s Bible and some of Roger’s own translation of the text. It remains known most commonly as the Matthew-Tyndale Bible. It went through a nearly identical second-edition printing in 1549.

            In 1539, Thomas Cranmer, the Archbishop of Canterbury, hired Myles Coverdale at the bequest of King Henry VIII to publish the “Great Bible”. It became the first English Bible authorized for public use, as it was distributed to every church, chained to the pulpit, and a reader was even provided so that the illiterate could hear the Word of God in plain English. It would seem that William Tyndale’s last wish had been granted…just three years after his martyrdom. Cranmer’s Bible, published by Coverdale, was known as the Great Bible due to its great size: a large pulpit folio measuring over 14 inches tall. Seven editions of this version were printed between April of 1539 and December of 1541.

            It was not that King Henry VIII had a change of conscience regarding publishing the Bible in English. His motives were more sinister… but the Lord sometimes uses the evil intentions of men to bring about His glory. King Henry VIII had in fact, requested that the Pope permit him to divorce his wife and marry his mistress. The Pope refused. King Henry responded by marrying his mistress anyway, (later having two of his many wives executed), and thumbing his nose at the Pope by renouncing Roman Catholicism, taking England out from under Rome’s religious control, and declaring himself as the reigning head of State to also be the new head of the Church. This new branch of the Christian Church, neither Roman Catholic nor truly Protestant, became known as the Anglican Church or the Church of England. King Henry acted essentially as its “Pope”. His first act was to further defy the wishes of Rome by funding the printing of the scriptures in English… the first legal English Bible… just for spite.

            The ebb and flow of freedom continued through the 1540’s…and into the 1550’s. After King Henry VIII, King Edward VI took the throne, and after his death, the reign of Queen “Bloody” Mary was the next obstacle to the printing of the Bible in English. She was possessed in her quest to return England to the Roman Church. In 1555, John “Thomas Matthew” Rogers and Thomas Cranmer were both burned at the stake. Mary went on to burn reformers at the stake by the hundreds for the “crime” of being a Protestant. This era was known as the Marian Exile, and the refugees fled from England with little hope of ever seeing their home or friends again.

            In the 1550’s, the Church at Geneva, Switzerland, was very sympathetic to the reformer refugees and was one of only a few safe havens for a desperate people. Many of them met in Geneva, led by Myles Coverdale and John Foxe (publisher of the famous Foxe’s Book of Martyrs, which is to this day the only exhaustive reference work on the persecution and martyrdom of Early Christians and Protestants from the first century up to the mid-16th century), as well as Thomas Sampson and William Whittingham. There, with the protection of the great theologian John Calvin (author of the most famous theological book ever published, Calvin’s Institutes of the Christian Religion)and John Knox, the great Reformer of the Scottish Church, the Church of Geneva determined to produce a Bible that would educate their families while they continued in exile.

            The Geneva Bible was the first Bible to add numbered verses to the chapters, so that referencing specific passages would be easier. Every chapter was also accompanied by extensive marginal notes and references so thorough and complete that the Geneva Bible is also considered the first English “Study Bible”. William Shakespeare quotes hundreds of times in his plays from the Geneva translation of the Bible. The Geneva Bible became the Bible of choice for over 100 years of English speaking Christians. Between 1560 and 1644 at least 144 editions of this Bible were published. Examination of the 1611 King James Bible shows clearly that its translators were influenced much more by the Geneva Bible, than by any other source. The Geneva Bible itself retains over 90% of William Tyndale’s original English translation. The Geneva in fact, remained more popular than the King James Version until decades after its original release in 1611! The Geneva holds the honor of being the first Bible taken to America, and the Bible of the Puritans and Pilgrims. It is truly the “Bible of the Protestant Reformation.”

            With the end of Queen Mary’s bloody reign, the reformers could safely return to England. The Anglican Church, now under Queen Elizabeth I, reluctantly tolerated the printing and distribution of Geneva version Bibles in England. The marginal notes, which were vehemently against the institutional Church of the day, did not rest well with the rulers of the day. Another version, one with a less inflammatory tone was desired, and the copies of the Great Bible were getting to be decades old. In 1568, a revision of the Great Bible known as the Bishop’s Bible was introduced. Despite 19 editions being printed between 1568 and 1606, this Bible, referred to as the “rough draft of the King James Version”, never gained much of a foothold of popularity among the people. The Geneva may have simply been too much to compete with.

            By the 1580’s, the Roman Catholic Church saw that it had lost the battle to suppress the will of God: that His Holy Word be available in the English language. In 1582, the Church of Rome surrendered their fight for “Latin only” and decided that if the Bible was to be available in English, they would at least have an official Roman Catholic English translation. And so, using the corrupt and inaccurate Latin Vulgate as the only source text, they went on to publish an English Bible with all the distortions and corruptions that Erasmus had revealed and warned of 75 years earlier. Because it was translated at the Roman Catholic College in the city of Rheims, it was known as the Rheims New Testament (also spelled Rhemes). The Douay Old Testament was translated by the Church of Rome in 1609 at the College in the city of Douay (also spelled Doway & Douai). The combined product is commonly referred to as the “Doway/Rheims” Version. In 1589, Dr. William Fulke of Cambridge published the “Fulke’s Refutation”, in which he printed in parallel columns the Bishops Version along side the Rheims Version, attempting to show the error and distortion of the Roman Church’s corrupt compromise of an English version of the Bible.

            With the death of Queen Elizabeth I, Prince James VI of Scotland became King James I of England. The Protestant clergy approached the new King in 1604 and announced their desire for a new translation to replace the Bishop’s Bible first printed in 1568. They knew that the Geneva Version had won the hearts of the people because of its excellent scholarship, accuracy, and exhaustive commentary. However, they did not want the controversial marginal notes (proclaiming the Pope an Anti-Christ, etc.) Essentially, the leaders of the church desired a Bible for the people, with scriptural references only for word clarification or cross-references.

            This “translation to end all translations” (for a while at least) was the result of the combined effort of about fifty scholars. They took into consideration: The Tyndale New Testament, The Coverdale Bible, The Matthews Bible, The Great Bible, The Geneva Bible, and even the Rheims New Testament. The great revision of the Bishop’s Bible had begun. From 1605 to 1606 the scholars engaged in private research. From 1607 to 1609 the work was assembled. In 1610 the work went to press, and in 1611 the first of the huge (16 inch tall) pulpit folios known today as “The 1611 King James Bible” came off the printing press. A typographical discrepancy in Ruth 3:15 rendered a pronoun “He” instead of “She” in that verse in some printings. This caused some of the 1611 First Editions to be known by collectors as “He” Bibles, and others as “She” Bibles. Starting just one year after the huge 1611 pulpit-size King James Bibles were printed and chained to every church pulpit in England; printing then began on the earliest normal-size printings of the King James Bible. These were produced so individuals could have their own personal copy of the Bible.

            The Anglican Church’s King James Bible took decades to overcome the more popular Protestant Church’s Geneva Bible. One of the greatest ironies of history, is that many Protestant Christian churches today embrace the King James Bible exclusively as the “only” legitimate English language translation… yet it is not even a Protestant translation! It was printed to compete with the Protestant Geneva Bible, by authorities who throughout most of history were hostile to Protestants… and killed them. While many Protestants are quick to assign the full blame of persecution to the Roman Catholic Church, it should be noted that even after England broke from Roman Catholicism in the 1500’s, the Church of England (The Anglican Church) continued to persecute Protestants throughout the 1600’s. One famous example of this is John Bunyan, who while in prison for the crime of preaching the Gospel, wrote one of Christian history’s greatest books, Pilgrim’s Progress. Throughout the 1600’s, as the Puritans and the Pilgrims fled the religious persecution of England to cross the Atlantic and start a new free nation in America, they took with them their precious Geneva Bible, and rejected the King’s Bible. America was founded upon the Geneva Bible, not the King James Bible.

            Protestants today are largely unaware of their own history, and unaware of the Geneva Bible (which is textually 95% the same as the King James Version, but 50 years older than the King James Version, and not influenced by the Roman Catholic Rheims New Testament that the King James translators admittedly took into consideration). Nevertheless, the King James Bible turned out to be an excellent and accurate translation, and it became the most printed book in the history of the world, and the only book with one billion copies in print. In fact, for over 250 years…until the appearance of the English Revised Version of 1881-1885…the King James Version reigned without much of a rival. One little-known fact, is that for the past 200 years, all King James Bibles published in America are actually the 1769 Baskerville spelling and wording revision of the 1611. The original “1611” preface is deceivingly included by the publishers, and no mention of the fact that it is really the 1769 version is to be found, because that might hurt sales.

            Although the first Bible printed in America was done in the native Algonquin Indian Language by John Eliot in 1663; the first English language Bible to be printed in America by Robert Aitken in 1782 was a King James Version. Robert Aitken’s 1782 Bible was also the only Bible ever authorized by the United States Congress. He was commended by President George Washington for providing Americans with Bibles during the embargo of imported English goods due to the Revolutionary War. In 1808, Robert’s daughter, Jane Aitken, would become the first woman to ever print a Bible… and to do so in America, of course. In 1791, Isaac Collins vastly improved upon the quality and size of the typesetting of American Bibles and produced the first “Family Bible” printed in America… also a King James Version. Also in 1791, Isaiah Thomas published the first Illustrated Bible printed in America…in the King James Version.

            While Noah Webster, just a few years after producing his famous Dictionary of the English Language, would produce his own modern translation of the English Bible in 1833; the public remained too loyal to the King James Version for Webster’s version to have much impact. It was not really until the 1880’s that England’s own planned replacement for their King James Bible, the English Revised Version(E.R.V.) would become the first English language Bible to gain popular acceptance as a post-King James Version modern-English Bible. The widespread popularity of this modern-English translation brought with it another curious characteristic: the absence of the 14 Apocryphal books.

            Up until the 1880’s every Protestant Bible (not just Catholic Bibles) had 80 books, not 66! The inter-testamental books written hundreds of years before Christ called “The Apocrypha” were part of virtually every printing of the Tyndale-Matthews Bible, the Great Bible, the Bishops Bible, the Protestant Geneva Bible, and the King James Bible until their removal in the 1880’s! The original 1611 King James contained the Apocrypha, and King James threatened anyone who dared to print the Bible without the Apocrypha with heavy fines and a year in jail. Only for the last 120 years has the Protestant Church rejected these books, and removed them from their Bibles. This has left most modern-day Christians believing the popular myth that there is something “Roman Catholic” about the Apocrypha. There is, however, no truth in that myth, and no widely-accepted reason for the removal of the Apocrypha in the 1880’s has ever been officially issued by a mainline Protestant denomination.

            The Americans responded to England’s E.R.V. Bible by publishing the nearly-identical American Standard Version (A.S.V.) in 1901. It was also widely-accepted and embraced by churches throughout America for many decades as the leading modern-English version of the Bible. In the 1971, it was again revised and called New American Standard Version Bible (often referred to as the N.A.S.V. or N.A.S.B. or N.A.S.). This New American Standard Bible is considered by nearly all evangelical Christian scholars and translators today, to be the most accurate, word-for-word translation of the original Greek and Hebrew scriptures into the modern English language that has ever been produced. It remains the most popular version among theologians, professors, scholars, and seminary students today. Some, however, have taken issue with it because it is so direct and literal a translation (focused on accuracy), that it does not flow as easily in conversational English.

            For this reason, in 1973, the New International Version (N.I.V.) was produced, which was offered as a “dynamic equivalent” translation into modern English. The N.I.V. was designed not for “word-for-word” accuracy, but rather, for “phrase-for-phrase” accuracy, and ease of reading even at a Junior High-School reading level. It was meant to appeal to a broader (and in some instances less-educated) cross-section of the general public. Critics of the N.I.V. often jokingly refer to it as the “Nearly Inspired Version”, but that has not stopped it from becoming the best-selling modern-English translation of the Bible ever published.

            In 1982, Thomas Nelson Publishers produced what they called the “New King James Version”. Their original intent was to keep the basic wording of the King James to appeal to King James Version loyalists, while only changing the most obscure words and the Elizabethan “thee, thy, thou” pronouns. This was an interesting marketing ploy, however, upon discovering that this was not enough of a change for them to be able to legally copyright the result, they had to make more significant revisions, which defeated their purpose in the first place. It was never taken seriously by scholars, but it has enjoyed some degree of public acceptance, simply because of its clever “New King James Version” marketing name.

            In 2002, a major attempt was made to bridge the gap between the simple readability of the N.I.V., and the extremely precise accuracy of the N.A.S.B. This translation is called the English Standard Version (E.S.V.) and is rapidly gaining popularity for its readability and accuracy. The 21st Century will certainly continue to bring new translations of God’s Word in the modern English language.

            As Christians, we must be very careful to make intelligent and informed decisions about what translations of the Bible we choose to read. On the liberal extreme, we have people who would give us heretical new translations that attempt to change God’s Word to make it politically correct. One example of this, which has made headlines recently is the Today’s New International Version (T.N.I.V.) which seeks to remove all gender-specific references in the Bible whenever possible! Not all new translations are good… and some are very bad.

            But equally dangerous, is the other extreme… of blindly rejecting ANY English translation that was produced in the four centuries that have come after the 1611 King James. We must remember that the main purpose of the Protestant Reformation was to get the Bible out of the chains of being trapped in an ancient language that few could understand, and into the modern, spoken, conversational language of the present day. William Tyndale fought and died for the right to print the Bible in the common, spoken, modern English tongue of his day… as he boldly told one official who criticized his efforts, “If God spare my life, I will see to it that the boy who drives the plowshare knows more of the scripture than you, Sir!”

            Will we now go backwards, and seek to imprison God’s Word once again exclusively in ancient translations? Clearly it is not God’s will that we over-react to SOME of the bad modern translations, by rejecting ALL new translations and “throwing the baby out with the bathwater”. The Word of God is unchanging from generation to generation, but language is a dynamic and ever-changing form of communication. We therefore have a responsibility before God as Christians to make sure that each generation has a modern translation that they can easily understand, yet that does not sacrifice accuracy in any way. Let’s be ever mindful that we are not called to worship the Bible. That is called idolatry. We are called to worship the God who gave us the Bible, and who preserved it through the centuries of people who sought to destroy it.

        • I Don’t think that is an accurate account of how the New Testament books were added to the Old?

        • Long (few hundred years) after His death was when the Catholic Church put together the books we call the Bible but those books were around shortly after Christ died.

        • The largest part of the church mostly stopped following the bible in the second century.This popular church officially became the Roman Catholic Church in 380 AD. The books of the new testament were written in the first century. Which books do you think should have been included in the bible?

        • J.C & The Boyz, when are you going to realize that you are too stupid to announce the crazy ideas your get in your head?

        • so amazingly simplified and ignorantly composed a statement is never valid. The process was far more complicated and thorough than you state. The church was catholic meaning unified or universal not denominational like the later Roman Catholic Church.

        • It must be understood that a modern definition of the Bible as a bound volume does not precisely fit the ancient definition of a “collection of scrolls”. IE, imagine a large box containing 66 scrolls. Now, some churches did not have every scroll, and not all of the churches had the same scrolls. While there was a good measure of debate in the Early Church over the New Testament canon, the major writings were accepted by almost all Christians by the middle of the 3rd century (250 AD); long before the Roman catholic church had assumed an authoritative role. Justin Martyr, in the early 2nd century, mentions the “memoirs of the Apostles,” which Christians (Greek: Χριστιανός) called “gospels,” and which were considered to be authoritatively equal to the Old Testament. Marcion gives a list of works even earlier that Martyr does, and so while there was disagreement among the churches about which precise writings should be considered ‘binding’; it was not simply that the “Catholic church just got together and decided” which texts were to be included. Rather, they approved a list of texts that were already in common use among the various churches. The Bible, after all, establishes the church, not vice versa.

          • I like your reply. Even though the Catholics like their Apocrypha, that does not mean that it should be included in the bible.

      • All protestants who took out 7 books from the old testament but nobody ever mentions that. LDS even uses the version of the bible with those books omitted.

        • Those books were not included because Good was silent dieing those years. In fact, they are known as The Silent Years. Since there is no message from God, they are not included but are in Biblical history books for their historical value.

      • I agree it says that in Revelation. But Revelation was not the last book of the New Testament to be written. Several of the other books were written later.

        • The Apostle John, to whom Jesus dictated the Revelation of Jesus Christ, outlived all the other writers of the New Testament. He was approximately 95 when he wrote it. All the other writers were dead by then. The only other books of the NT that could have possibly been written at the same time is the 4 other books that John wrote. It is highly likely that The Apocalypse was the final Book written since in it Jesus warns that nothing else is to be added or taken away from His Word. Do you not think that Jesus could know what the final addition would hold?

        • The “books” you reference were all written after the apostles and their immediate disciples died.

      • Didn’t we just read the same article about regurgitating unbiblical propaganda born from the popular belief of an illiterate public?

      • Actually, that statement is only in the book of revelation and is specifically referencing changes to that book not the whole bible. And of the included books that wasn’t written last.

      • What was/were your source/sources of your lengthy ‘historical’ diatribe? Was it all from that one site: http://www.greatsite.com? Where are they getting their information? I’ll look at it.

      • So you’re going to ignore Deutoronomy 4:2? Was that not written before the New Testament? Does that then mean the New Testament is false?

      • “A careful reading of the words makes it clear that the warning against adding to or taking away does not refer to the whole Bible or even to the New Testament, but to use John’s words, only to the words of “the book of this prophecy.” That is, the prophecy contained in the book of Revelation. This is substantiated by the fact that some of the books of the New Testament had not yet been written when John wrote the book of Revelation, and even those that had been written and were in existence at that time had not yet been gathered into one compilation.

        The collection of writings consisting of the sixty-six books we know as the Bible were brought together and compiled into one volume long after John wrote the prophetic book that has been placed at the end of the collection. It is clear, therefore, that the terrible judgments pronounced upon those who add to the book could not possibly apply to the whole of the Bible or even to the New Testament, but only to the book of Revelation.” – Howard W. Hunter

    • but Mormons worship a false Jesus. One who is not God the Son and so you have neither the Father nor the Son. This is the certain conviction of all Christians. Mormons are no more Christian than Jehovah’s Witnesses or even religions as different as Islam.

      Here’s proof-

      • Mormons believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God. We believe in God the Eternal Father, His Son, Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost. We are Christians. If you want “proof” about what Mormons believe, ask the Mormons themselves. lds.org is a great place to start.

        • LDS also believe everyone alive was already born to this same god and lived as spirit children before being born in this world. LDS do choose to worship God the Father, Jesus the son, and Holy Spirit. However all 3 are separate Gods no one in Single Trinity being. Also LDS believe in many Gods and the possibility anyone can become a God. Also believe single adults cannot enter the same Heaven as Mormons can attain, also believe almost everyone is resurrected to a Heaven, one of 3. However they believe the LDS practitioners alone acquire the highest level where God’s Glory always resides. It is not what LDS publically state they believe that sounds similar to Christianity that sets them apart, it is the other stuff they believe. Joseph Smith was told by an “angel” to have nothing to do with any existing Christian Church as all were fallen except LDS. Why the charade today of pretending to be like other Christian churches?

    • And you think that you can become a god. That God has a physical body and had sex with His wife to produce us.. no ya”ll do not worship the God of the Bible or Jesus Christ

      • Mormons believe that God is our Eternal Father – the very Father of our Spirits. We do not know how He created our spirits. We don’t even speak of those sacred things and that is not important to me in the grand scheme of things. We believe that God loves us incomprehensibly, desires for us to love and serve each other as His children, and to be obedient to His commandments. We believe that through His Son, Jesus Christ’s Atonement, we are able to repent and change and become worthy to return back to our heavenly home if we remain faithful to God.

    • Fair enough. That is certainly true. HOWEVER, it is not the same Jesus Christ. For you, Jesus Christ is not the second person of the Trinity. For you, Jesus Christ might be god, but no different than the god that you yourself can become. For you, Jesus Christ and Lucifer are spirit brothers. These are only some of the VERY CRUCIAL differences between LDS and orthodox Christianity. Please, don’t get wrong what I’m about to say. I think LDS folk are humanly speaking good, moral people. However, it simply isn’t fair to take historic, orthodox, Christian terminology, turn it all on its head, redefine it and still expect to be called Christian. Granted, if these are your beliefs, that is fine and we can agree to disagree I guess, but I think it is selfish and patently unfair to ask to be called Christians after denying virtually every single orthodox Christian doctrine and then redefining them, thereby hijacking our terminology.

      • Deron, you do realize that you just accused another Christian of hijacking “YOUR” terminology.
        A bit hypocritical, considering that you had nothing to do with creating that terminology. For thousands of years, wars have been fought, lives have been lost, innocent blood has been spilled, nations and families divided, all in the name of whose religion is “RIGHT”.
        I am not a L.D.S. or even a Christian for that matter, but I can tell you God’s intent for you. Be kind, love each other, understand the universe around you and respect it, be tolerant, be patient, compassionate, loving, accepting, and most of all be grateful. This is what GOD wants from you. You know how I know that? It isn’t because the bible, or the quran, or the torah, or the upanishads, the tao te ching, the sutras, or the vedas or the stars…tell me so. It’s because it is common sense. It’s what Jesus tried to teach, it’s what Budda tried to teach, and all the other great religious leaders of their times taught. They were all great souls. That’s why we are still talking about them today. But honestly, how can any of you be so sure of what was factual when it comes to history. We all know that history can easily be changed by the one holding the pen. In the U.S, we still celebrate Christopher Columbus day. School children have been taught that he “discovered” America. Never mind the fact that there were already people here when he arrived. You grew up believing that there are 9 planets in the solar system, and we were all taught that Jesus’s Birthday is December 25th. Just because somebody writes it down doesn’t mean it’s true. The Roman Catholic church went to great lengths to make sure that history was “changed”. When the Roman’s finally got on board with Christianity, they had to change a lot of history, They still had pagans that were celebrating Saturnalia, so they just decided to “HIJACK” the holiday and turn it into Christmas. Ishtar became Easter. Modern day Christian’s are guilty of a little HIJACKING themselves. And the Catholic church is still covering their butts by “changing history”. They do it every time they transfer a pedophile priest to a different parish, in order to cover his sins and their tracks. It doesn’t matter which religion is right. Just follow those simple rules and God will love you. Just as SHE loves me.

        • Melissa, Did you read the article?? Maybe you should go back and look at it again…particularly #3 and #6. If you admit that you aren’t even a Christian (meaning follower of Christ), maybe you shouldn’t be trying to explain what Jesus taught. You got some of it right, but just like many liberals, you added the “tolerant and accepting” yourself. If you aren’t familiar with a religion, perhaps it’s best if you don’t try and explain it.

    • But your Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible. Jjoseph Smith invented a new Jesus in his description of Jesus as a created being and a new god when he said God was only the God of earth. Different Jesus and different God means different gospel, which makes Joseph Smith accursed. That other gospel does not save.

    • Christianity: There is only one God. (Isaiah 43:11; 44:6, 8; 45:5).
      Mormonism: “And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light.” (Book of Abraham 4:3).

      Christianity: God has always been God. (Psalm 90:2; Isaiah 57:15).
      Mormonism: “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see,” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).

      Christianity: God is a spirit without flesh and bones. (John 4:24; Luke 24:39).
      Mormonism: “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s,” (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22; Compare with Alma 18:26-27; 22:9-10). “Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones,” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).

      Christianity: The Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in all the universe, and that He exists in three eternal, simultaneous persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
      Mormonism: The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. “That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man,” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

      Christianity: Jesus was born of the virgin Mary. (Isaiah 7:14; Matt. 1:23).
      Mormonism: “The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood–was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115).
      “Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers” (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 547).

      Christianity: Jesus is the eternal Son. He is second person of the Trinity. He has two natures. He is God in flesh and man (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2;9) and the creator of all things (Col. 1:15-17).
      Mormonism: Jesus is the literal spirit-brother of Lucifer, a creation (Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).

      Christianity: The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. He is not a force. He is a person. (Acts 5:3-4; 13:2)
      Mormonism: Mormonism distinguishes between the Holy Spirit (God’s presence via an essence) and the Holy Ghost (the third god in the Mormon doctrine of the trinity).
      “He [the Holy Ghost] is a being endowed with the attributes and powers of Deity, and not a mere force, or essence,” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 144).

      Christianity: Salvation is the forgiveness of sin and deliverance of the sinner from damnation. It is a free gift received by God’s grace (Eph. 2:8; Rom. 6:23) and cannot be earned. (Rom. 11:6).
      Mormonism: Salvation has a double meaning in Mormonism: universal resurrection and . . .
      “The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins,” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79).

      Christianity: The inspired inerrant word of God (2 Tim. 3:16). It is authoritative in all subjects it addresses.
      Mormonism: “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. . .” (8th Article of Faith of the Mormon Church).

      CONCLUSION: Mormonism is obviously not the biblical version of Christianity. It is not Christian, and Mormons serve a different god from do the Christians–a god that does not exist. Paul talks about this in Gal. 4:8, “when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods.” Only the God of the Bible exists. There are no others. Mormonism puts its faith in a non-existent god.

      • Totally agree Debbie..very informative. My brother is a Jehovah’s Witness..do you know of similar comparisons to their doctrine and Christianity?

      • You must not know Hebrew, because in Genesis 1:26, it states, “Vayomer Elohim na’aseh adam b’tzal’meinu kid’muteinu…” “Let us (elohim is plural of G-d) make man in our image…” There is only one G-d, but your analysis does not take into account this passage. You are also incorrect when you talk of the Torah as being more than the first five books of the hebrew scriptures. These are the written Torah, and there is also the oral Torah. You also fail to acknowledge the different authors of the written Torah (known as the J, E, P and D sources). And the Torah was not canonized by Jewish rabbinic authorities until circa 400 CE. It never ceases to amaze me how Christianity has manipulated Jewish religious texts to fit into their Jesus theories.

        • Genesis is written as let Us make man because He is teaching that His image is a trinity just like His creation of man. We are body, soul, and spirit. He is Father, Son, Holy Spirit. All one, but with in three. Just as all of nature….atoms made of proton, neutron, electron.

          • Another commenter who does not understand Hebrew or the meaning of the text. have you ever considered that the NT was written to create the Jesus-deity? There is no hard evidence that they were written as an eye-witness account (just that they say they were). Even I can manipulate Biblical text to say what I want it to say and to mean what I want it to mean. You all quote Isaiah to foretell the coming of Jesus; it was foretelling a political redeemer, one who did not come (at least not yet). Christianity has always misunderstood the Hebrew Bible, and persecuted Jews for 2000 years to boot.

        • Then Mr. Ramsey is a false teacher.

          The words of Jesus are clear: he came to give us full life, not full coffers. (John 10:10; Matthew 19:21). Jesus spent the majority of his ministry bringing hope to the poor, the crippled, and the mourning. (Matthew 5:3-12). As best as I see in scripture, Christ only distinguished between the rich and the poor for the purpose of warning the rich of their impending doom. (Luke 12:16-20). He told one rich young ruler to stop living by legalistic principles in an effort to earn God’s favor, and to go and sell everything he had, give it all to the poor, and follow him—a poor retirement plan, indeed. (Matthew 19:21; Mark 10:17-27).

        • The words of Jesus are clear: he came to give us full life, not full coffers. (John 10:10; Matthew 19:21). Jesus spent the majority of his ministry bringing hope to the poor, the crippled, and the mourning. (Matthew 5:3-12). As best as I see in scripture, Christ only distinguished between the rich and the poor for the purpose of warning the rich of their impending doom. (Luke 12:16-20). He told one rich young ruler to stop living by legalistic principles in an effort to earn God’s favor, and to go and sell everything he had, give it all to the poor, and follow him—a poor retirement plan, indeed. (Matthew 19:21; Mark 10:17-27).

        • Dave Smith, when it says let us make man in our image, don’t you realize that is the first proof of the Triune God, one God, 3 persons. The Father is present as creator, Jesus is present as The Word which he is often referred to as and the Spirit is there moving over the water. Simple to a believer.

    • I was never baptized in muddy river, but I was born out of my mother who’s water broke just before my birth. I also attempt to follow Jesus and believe his spirit is inside of me. almost as if i were baptized in it.

      did jesus forgive the man on the cross next to him at golgotha.

    • When you elevate Joseph Smith’s words and writings above the God-breathed written Scriptures, you are worshiping him. Regardless of whether you believe it or not–you are.

    • They worship Christ but not as equal with God the Father as they believe Jesus was a created being and that is incorrect. Mormons also believe many false doctrines that are too numerous to mention. They do not believe in a literal burning Hell and that someone can be baptized for someone that has already died. One last word, any religion that adds anything to salvation other than by and through the shed blood of Jesus Christ is not biblical and is a false religion. I know as I was a former Mormon deceived by their false doctrines until I finally heard the Tuth of God’s word and accepted what Jesus Christ did for me on Calvary.

      • I meant that they do believe in baptism for the dead and that is false.

        • Are we just picking and choosing from the bible now?
          1 Corinthians 15:29?

          29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

    • I think every good Mormon should read the King Follett sermon. It’s a sermon given by Joseph Smith that a lot of Mormons don’t know about. I’m not saying you worship Joseph Smith, because that is false, but Joseph smith did not have the apostolic authority to be able to write scripture nor prophesy like he did. The bible warns us about false teachers and false prophet such as Joseph Smith. All prophesy must be weighed against what the bible teaches and Joseph Smith doesn’t teach the bible. The bible says, “You shall have no other gods before me,” but the King Follett sermon says that there was a council of gods, implying that there is more than one God, when the bible teaches that there is one true God in three persons. This goes directly against scripture making it a false prophecy.

      • So are we going to ignore the fact that there is God the Father, His Son – Jesus Christ and The Holy Ghost?
        Are they not three?
        Are they not gods?

        This is what annoys me about christianity, above any other religion.

        Picking and choosing.
        This is why people who believe the bible alone is enough, are absolutely blind.
        Apparently God is the creator of confusion? Because confusion sure has come from the bible! How many Christian denominations? How many branches? How many think they are right?

        And people call living prophets ridiculous.
        The bible won’t save any of us, because no one will take the time to read the whole dang thing without picking and choosing what they want to believe.

    • Do you know a Mormon who’s testimony doesn’t involve these words: “that Joseph Smith was a true prophet?” You worship the Jesus of the Book of Mormon, not the Jesus of the Bible which was God in the flesh. Your Jesus was brother to Satan. God created Satan, how could he be his brother? Yes, Moses was a prophet but not one Christian’s testimony is that Moses was a true prophet. You can talk to 10 Christians and get 10 different testimonies of what God has done in their lives. Talk to 10 Mormons and they all have the same ‘burning in the bosom’ visit from a familiar spirit that tells them that Joseph was a true prophet. Not one Mormon tests whether that spirit is from God, they believe the church telling them it would happen that way.

    • The Book of Mormon is neither canon nor scriptural. How then can one who subscribes to it do the same with God’s Word that commands against any addition?

    • Is Jesus Christ “fully God and fully man” to Mormons? If not u don’t worship him as he deserves to be worshiped.

    • Mormons believe that lucifer was the brother of Jesus, therefore, NO, you do NOT worship Jesus Christ, because Jesus did not have a brother. Lucifer was a fallen angel according to Ezekial 28:11-19.

    • Your Jesus is NOT the Jesus of the Bible! He is some spirit child from the planet Kolob. No thanks for me, but feel free to follow what Joseph Smith says about Jesus.

    • Mormons don’t worship Jesus. The Jesus in Mormonism IS NOT the Biblical Jesus.

      • Christianity: Jesus is the son of God.
      • Mormonism: Jesus is a son of God (one of millions, billions, or even gazllions).

      • Christianity: Jesus was Begotten by the Holy Spirit: Matthew 1:1-18; Luke 1:26-35.
      • Mormonism: Jesus was the physically conceived Son of God and not begotten by Holy Ghost.

      • Christianity: Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, who became man to live a perfect life, to be mankind’s substitute
      on the Cross, and to rise from the dead, defeating death.
      • Mormonism: Jesus is the spirit-brother to every man, and even Satan. Jesus is one of an endless number of gods and is a being separate from the Heavenly Father.

      • Christianity: Jesus has always been God: John 1:1-18; Col. 2:9; Psalms 90:2.
      • Mormonism: Jesus became a god:

      • Christianity: Satan is a Created Being, Created by Jesus: Isaiah 14:12-15; Revelation 12:9; Colossians 1:15-16.
      • Mormonism: Jesus and Satan are Brothers,

      • Christianity: Jesus has only One Bride: the Church; Revelation 19:7-9; 21:9.
      • Mormonism: Jesus was a Polygamist.

    • And who is your Jesus? A god of this world but not of others? Is he the acutual Son of God the Father? Is he God in the flesh who was born as a human to walk among men and die to take away the sin on the world? Is he the same as Father and Holy Spirit? Nope…Mormons do not beliebe in the Jesus Christ of the bible. You read a book the is not acknowledged by any other Christian. You read a book and believe it more n than the bible itself. You believe in a man who was visited by an angel that no one ever heard of and a book full of events that can not be verified historically and is in fact full of mistakes and discrepency. With the bible, there is historical evidence. There are even scrolls that exist that confirm the bible’s truth. Your book of mormon is based on “faith”. A burning of the bosom…no tablets because they were “destroyed”. No hill of Kumorah or however its spelled because its blocked off and there is no access and when there was, no archological evidence of any great was with massive casualties. There is no 13th tribe. Native Americans are decendents of North East Asia. Its all wrong. But…that being said…mormons are nice and have good values.

    • What Marya says is absolutely true. I’m LDS (Mormon) as well. We certainly do not worship Joseph Smith. He was a prophet, called of God,
      who taught that salvation comes only through Jesus Christ our Savior. We pray in His Name. We worship the Father in the Name of Christ.

    • The idea of “You only live once” or “YOLO”. People use that as an excuse to take certain risks, to rush things or to simply do certain things blindly without thinking of the consequences. I believe there a specific times where God calls us to make split second decisions. But God has always mentored us to be wise in our decisions using his wisdom instead of our own. Proverbs 3:5-6 “Trust in the Lord with all your heart
      and lean not on your own understanding;
      in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight”

      Doing things with the mentality of “You Only Live Once” seems to take God out of the center of your life and tends to put yourself in the center. Hence I ain’t a big fan of this saying. Yes God put me on this Earth and I have only once Earthly life, but that does not mean I will act unwise and do stupid things. God has gifted us this life and we need to live responsibly. And living responsibly won’t make life dull but will actually make it more fun than
      most people realize. 🙂

    • LDS believe Satan is Jesus’ brother. The Hesus of the Bible is God’s ONLY begotten son. Satan is a created being; an angel.

    • Mormons don’t worship Christ and their gospel is false as stated in the Testament. They think god died and the new god moved to earth from the planet Kolob… lol.. true story. Here is the warning : Galatians 1:8

    • Joseph smith is a false prophet. Extra biblical revelation is condemned by scripture, and actually leads to greater condemnation and punishment (Revelation 22:18-19). Joseph Smith came along and gave a “new revelation” that completely contradicts the Bible which is the only true revelation of God. The Book of Mormon is not inspired by God, because it completely contradicts the nature of God that we see in the scriptures. It’s interesting that this “newfound” revelation wasn’t even written until the 1800’s. And some man claimed that he had a vision of God that completely contradicted the scriptures which were written 1700 years earlier and affirmed and confirmed and doctrine was established at the councils of Nivea and Chalcedon. But never mind that. The Jesus that you worship is a created Jesus, a false Jesus, and a Jesus that cannot save you from your sins. If Jesus is not eternally God He cannot save you from your sin. It took the shed blood of God Himself to ransom you. Why because no created being can save you, no man can ransom another (Psalm 49:7-8) “Truly no man can ransom another, or give to God the price of his life,
      8 for the ransom of their life is costly and can never suffice.”
      Scripture says ONLY GOD can ransom our souls (Psalm 49:15) “But God will ransom my soul from the power of Sheol, for he will receive me.” Selah
      And Jesus being God is the one who ransomed our souls (Revelation 5:9) “And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.”
      Jesus Himself said, unless you believe that I am He you will die in your sins” (John 8:24) Jesus is saying that you must believe that I am God or you will die in your sins. The Mormon Jesus is a false Jesus. Joseph Smith and His teachings completely contradict the revelation of God that had already been given thousands of years before Joseph Smith came along. It is absolutely blasphemous to say that God has not eternally existed as God (Psalm 90:12), God sits on an eternal throne (Psalm 9:7-8), He does not change (Micah 3:6), He is the first and the last (Isaiah 44:6), He is the only God, no god was formed before Him, no god was formed after or will be formed after Him (Isaiah 43:10). He is eternal, He was not a man who became a God, He has eternally existed as God (Jeremiah 10:10). Jesus is not a product of creation, He is the eternal divine Son of God who will rule and reign forever and ever (Micah 5:2; Isaiah 9:6; Daniel 7:13-14; John 1:1-3) He is the creator of all things (Colossians 1:15-17) including Satan. Unless you forsake the false revelation of Joseph Smith who received revelation that contradicts Gods only revelation, and cling by faith to the eternal, divine Son of God Jesus Christ, you will die in your sins.

    • In the BOM it says that Joseph Smith (a false prophet) holds the keys to heaven. No he does not hold the keys to heaven.

    • If you worship Jesus Christ, do you read the holy bible? If so, does it not say that we are not to have idols? Also, does it not also say, that no one should come to the father (God) except through me (Jesus)?

    • Mormons worship the Jesus Christ born to Mary in Bethlehem. The Christ that taught all to love their neighbors as themselves. The Christ that healed the sick, raised the dead, caused the lame to walk and the blind to receive their sight. The Christ that has offered salvation to all if we will repent, believe in Him and be baptized. If this is a different Christ than you worship then I hope you can find the light of Christ by reading about Him in the Bible. If it is the same Christ, then we are all working toward a common goal of being saved in the kingdom of heaven.

      • The purpose of a Christ’s offer of salvation, his blood shed on the cross, was because no human could ever attain it by his own works. So Mormons and protestant Christians may believe in the same Christ, but many don’t have biblical beliefs about Him.
        Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.”
        I can’t post it all here, but you should read the whole chapter. So, no, we are not all “working toward a common goal. ” I do want my works to please God as an act of worship and obedience, but works do not grant me access to heaven.

      • Praise God I don’t have to work toward that salvation! I have already accepted Christ’s work, which worked toward and completed my salvation!!! Yeah!!! 🙂

        • Um, Athena… I WANT TO work towards my salvation by doing all the good for others that I can. Yes, it is given to me freely by Jesus who died for you and me and everyone else but how can I show my gratitude for what He did? By helping others on their way and by being the very best person I can be and to not add to the pain on Calvary. Faith without works is dead!

          • I have seen some funny comments emailed to me.
            For starters Mormons aren’t Christians they are a cult just like Jehovah Witnesses. Two religion sucks and I am proud to a Christian which has no denominations which equals division and is no religion. Third, religion is man using his good deeds to get to heaven which is impossible as Jesus not only condemned religion but also said “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life and none shall come to the Father except through me” He also said “they will come to me and say did I not do good deeds in Your name and I will say depart from me for I never knew you”. Fourth according to the Gospel Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are three different entities but one and the same. Also according to the Gospel Steven did see Jesus standing on His own hand when he looked up into Heaven while he was being stoned to death, its not that hard to read and understand the Gospel unless you read the mormon garbage which is a direct violation and contradiction to God and Christianity showing they aren’t Christians they are just a cult and religion. Another thing I see is people that are trying to find contradictions in the Gospel which is impossible as there are no contradictions or anything said that would wrong or a fallacy

            Deuteronomy 4:2
            You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

      • You might want to read Alma 7:10 in your BOM. It says prophecying about Christ birth, “And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem….” Jerusalem is a totally different city from Bethlehem. That alone make the Mormon Jesus different. You might believe that your Jesus did all the healing and so forth but that doesn’t make him the same as the Biblical Christ. I challenge you to research into some of the LDS church history yourself and realize just how much your “prophets” have taken away from fee diety and character of not only Christ, but God himself.
        April, 1844; History of the Church, page 305 records in the 3rd paragraph under the section entitled God An Exhausted Man, “…it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I am going g to tell you God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see.” Do you realize that Joseph Smith is refuting g the Book of Mormon here? Moroni 8:18 says, “For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.”
        My question is, How can the LOS Christ or God be the same at the biblical Christ who is Lord when the LOS prophets change the character of God?

      • William, do you agree or disagree with former LDS president Gordon B. Hinckley? Do we serve the same Jesus?
        “In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ.’ ‘No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'” (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7).

        • Pres. Hinckley was referring to the fact that we do not followthe Nicene creed. We do not believe in the Trinitarian Christ. We believe in the Jesus Christ of the New Testament and then after his death and burial he was resurrected on the third day. We believe he still possesses the same body that he appeared to his disciples in. The same resurrected body that he ate fish and honey comb with. The same resurrected body that he showed the nail prints in his hands and feet to his disciples. Pres. Hinckley was referring to the tradition of the Nicene creed. The tradition that Jesus Christ and God the Father and the Holy Spirit are one being with no form and no separate identity. We believe in the Jesus Christ that Stephen saw standing on the right hand of God. The Jesus Christ that was baptized on earth and at the same time God the Father spoke from heaven. We believe in the same Jesus Christ of the New Testament as “traditional” Christians but have differing views on what he looks like today.

          • It would appear that Mormonism consists of many man-made rules. Mormons seem to follow these human rules just as the Pharisees and Sadducees did.

          • I agree with you, Debbie!

            Poor deceived people to not just take the Bible for what it is, than to follow someone else’s teachings. I no more believe Joseph Smith’s way than anything, it just doesn’t agree with the Bible. And the BIBLE is what we’ll be judged by. The devil is a deceiver and imitator and comes as an angel of light. People don’t want to believe the Bible, that’s why they try to find another way. There is no other way! You have to take the Bible, the Whole Bible, not just parts that suit your fancy.

      • William, ignoring or avoiding Shance3’s question doesn’t make it nonexistent. Considering the Mormon’s position of claiming to worship Jesus, I think his question is fair and deserves an answer. So, “Would that be Jesus who is the brother of Lucifer?”

        Furthermore, the Jesus of the Bible never stated or even remotely implied that we ‘work’ toward receiving salvation. In fact, He literally condemned such a false view of Himself and His salvation.

      • If whaT is taught in the “pearl of great price” – the Mormon book – that Jesus and satan are brothers then that is a tremendous problem biblically speaking (as Mormons hold to the Kjv as long as it is translated properly)
        1. If Jesus and satan are brothers then Jesus has to be a created being – not fully God – therefore not a part of the Trinity. Therefore you have a Godhead that is simply a duality (Father and Spirit) not Triune
        2. Or satan (if he and Jesus are brothers) must be God – therefore an addition to the Trinity. So you have 4 in the Godhead.
        *either way – you have high jacked a core component of Biblical Christianity as revealed in the Bible. Jesus – fully God – fully man – Satan is a created cherub NOT DEITY!
        No way around those.
        So you do not worship and cannot by definition worship or walk in the Gospel taught in the NT.
        JESUS WARNED ABOUT others who would “come in His Name”. This is one.

        • Jesus and Satan are SPIRIT brothers. Heavenly Father called a council and asked for ideas on how to get the humans he would create back to heaven. Lucifer wanted everyone to return to Heaven after death, but he would have accomplished this by FORCING them to obey all the commandments, and he wanted the glory to be his, not the Father’s. Jesus said Here I am, send Me, and the glory be Thine. Father chose Jesus’ plan and Lucifer got angry and gathered his followers (who apparently wouldn’t have made it back without being forced to do good) and so he never received a body because he was kicked out of Heaven.So when it was time, Jesus received His body. Yes, they were spirit brothers. Lucifer was the “Son of the Morning” — apparently he was a pretty important and beloved son — but he got greedy and power-hungry and so consequently, by his words and actions, he “fell”.

      • Lucifer was an angel. Jesus is God! Jesus is 100% God, and 100% man.
        Not trying to attack you, it just stuck out to me when you called Him only a man.

        • Jesus Was the Son of God who came to Earth as a man to fulfill the prophecy. Not exactly the same.

          • Jesus “was” not anything. Jesus is God, always has been God, always will be God. Only a person who hasn’t a clue as to what the term “Son of God” means would think it is a title less than God.

      • Lucifer was not an angel or anything spiritual. The whole story in the bible tells about the fall of the Babylonan king Belshazzar and his fall from power. And Christ was the Son of God which he called himself numerous times and never God. Actually study it and stop the false dogma and you people might understand. The last one isn’t true either

        • Isaiah 9:6
          For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.<—– This verse should clear up who Jesus is!

        • Where is your scripture to say satan isnt an angel? He was the lead angel of praise and became jealous so God cast him out of Heaven. He was jealous of us mind you. The very reason he wants to destroy us.

          • First of all. Let’s start with the fact that Lucifer is a Latin word and not Hebrew. Then let’s go to history itself that the King Belshazzar actually called himself the “Daystar” and considered himself a diety. You ma’am are confusing the bible with Dante’s divine comedy. More specifically Inferno. Much of what the Catholic Church pawned off as cannon comes from that and Miltons “paradise lost”. I do hope you choose to study and not just follow

          • King Belshazzar was NOT Satan, but followed Satan.

          • I didn’t say satan. I said Lucifer. Satan mean simply adversary or false accuser and Lucifer means Daystar or Morning star. There’s a difference.

          • “Lucifer, (lux [light] + fero [to carry] ) 1st declension feminine adjective meaning “light bringing.” in Classical Latin. Would you like me to decline it for you? Basically clerical writers of the Vulgate high jacked it, as they did many expressions from the Romans for illiterate medieval Christians and recast it in a different context. Their audience were mostly illiterate, since only the wealthy studied, and what they studied was mostly French and Latin and they weren’t about to go around playing Latin grammar Nazis to priests and Bishops and risk all sorts of scorn. Thus how were the ignorant to know that the name for the person they were suppose to fear most actually mean something like “moonlight” in its original meaning? For those of us who’ve studied Classical Latin this is a non-issue. Pax.

          • Eric, you have avoided answering April’s question. I am also looking for you to post scripture (Greek or Hebrew) that states that Satan is NOT a fallen angel.

          • Lucifer was cast out of heaven before humanity and King Belshazzar was created. Lucifer might mean Daystar, but they are not one and the same creatures.

          • Why do people believe Lucifer, the serpent in the garden etc was the devil?The only book of the bible where he’s mentioned as an actual being is the book of Job. Which I hope by now we all know is a parable. It never says nor implies anything else.

        • John 14:8-10New International Version (NIV)

          8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

          9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

          • Harlan, if I knew you personally and your upbringing was pretty normal I would not have to meet your father to know his character,values etc. one can see your father and his character through his children and the works they put forward. It’s not there. I come from my father. I am a duplicate of him.

          • Jesus never said he was good. He was obedient to the will of the Father. Nothing more. John 14:28 “the Father is greater than I ” if Jesus is God how can he be greater than himself. Sorry again. Still not there

        • So what are you saying Eric, is there more than one God? Because the bible is clear on this, God is one and there is no other. That being said explain this verse:

          John 20:27-29New International Version (NIV)

          27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

          28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” <—– Jesus never stopped him to correct him on this, because Jesus and the Father are one in the same. Jesus left his glory and came here as a man, because if you saw him in his glory we all would die in our sins.
          Luke 18:27
          Jesus replied, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.” <—- God is able to be here in human form as a man and still remain as God in heaven by the Spirit, stop limiting God to human limits.

          • Harlan. The word “God” he used was the Greek word “theos” which doesnt have the same meaning we put on the word today. The word is used all through the bible as a representative of “GOD”. All references to the diety are all capitalized. I would implore you to study not only the context but the words meanings as well. You Willa find a lot of what we were taught is simply wrong.

          • o LOGOS also means Word but we still know it to mean The Bible and word of God and not any word ever imagined. o Theos, even most importantly in the New Testament should mean, God, not a or some or this one being… I know in Greek Orthodoxy, an apostolic church, we do recognize Jesus as 100% man and God, and the Holy Trinity not as separate gods but one God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. It seems quite unfathomable (although so is our very make, no?) but it all comes together so fluidly. If you can speak to a theologian or priest who has studied bible, liturgy, tradition and translation, it really clears up moreso than reading the word in present language and trying to fathom what He did for us. It’s dazzling.

        • Eric: you might do some research before misleading people.

          Story of Lucifer – His Origin
          To find the origin of Lucifer, we turn to the Old Testament. In the Hebrew, the name Lucifer is translated from the Hebrew word “helel,” which means brightness. This designation, referring to Lucifer, is the rendering of the “morning star” or “star of the morning” or “bright star” which is presented in Isaiah. “How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon; I will ascend to the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High’” (Isaiah 14:12-14).

          The context of this passage is a referral to the king of Babylon as presented in his pride, splendor and fall. However, it is to the power behind the evil Babylonian king that this is actually addressed. No mortal king would claim that his throne was above that of God or that he was like the Most High. The power behind the evil Babylonian king is Lucifer, Son of the Morning.

          Story of Lucifer – His History
          Lucifer is just another name for Satan, who as head of the evil world-system is the real, though invisible, power behind the successive rulers of Tyre, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, and all of those evil rulers that we have seen come and go in the history of the world. This passage goes beyond human history and marks the beginning of sin in the universe and the very fall of Satan in the pristine, sinless spheres before the creation of man.

          We also see this same motif in Ezekiel: “Moreover the word of the LORD came to me: Mortal, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord GOD: You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, carnelian, chrysolite, and moonstone, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald; and worked in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. With an anointed cherub as guardian I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked among the stones of fire. You were blameless in your ways from the day that you were created, until iniquity was found in you. In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and the guardian cherub drove you out from among the stones of fire. Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I exposed you before kings, to feast their eyes on you. By the multitude of your iniquities, in the unrighteousness of your trade, you profaned your sanctuaries. So I brought out fire from within you; it consumed you, and I turned you to ashes on the earth in the sight of all who saw you. All who know you among the peoples are appalled at you; you have come to a dreadful end and shall be no more forever” (Ezekiel 28:11-19).

          This passage seems to be addressed to the “king of Tyre.” In reality, it goes beyond the king to the one who is behind the evil king of Tyre. This passage also has near and far prophecy about Lucifer/Satan because although his final end is already sure, it has not happened yet and it occurs after the final judgment (Revelation 20:7-10). In both the Isaiah passage and the Ezekiel passage, the representation is not of Lucifer/Satan as confined to his own person but his working in and the consummating of his plans through earthly kings and rulers who take to themselves divine honors and who, whether they actually know this or not, rule in the spirit and under the aims of Satan. “For our struggle is not against enemies of blood and flesh, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places” (Ephesians 6:12). Satan is the principality behind the powers of this corrupt world system.

          Notice the statement that is given in the passage in Ezekiel, “the anointed cherub.” These statements could never apply to a human king but, they do apply to Lucifer/Satan who is behind the human king. This angel is the highest creature the LORD ever created. The LORD says of him, “You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.” Satan was the wisest creature God ever created. No other angel, no other being was created with the intelligence that God gave to this creature. God says that this creation is “perfect in beauty.” Apart from the Holy Trinity; Father, Son and Holy Spirit, this creature is today the highest being.

          In verse Ezekiel 28:14 it says, “You were the anointed Cherub.” This tells us we are not talking about a human king. The word cherub is singular for cherubim. The cherubim are symbolic of God’s Holy presence and His unapproachable majesty. These cherubim occupy a unique position. The “anointed cherub who covers” is the picture given to us in the Garden of Eden after Adam and Eve had been sent out and God had placed cherubim to guard the way of the tree of life. Also, when Moses made the mercy seat and placed it into the tabernacle’s Holy of Holies, God’s glory came and dwelt between the cherubim. They “covered” the mercy seat with their wings. So we now see that Satan was a cherub and his position was to guard the very throne of God. His position was that of protecting the holiness of God. Satan had the highest of all positions, a position which he despised and lost. We have here in Ezekiel a picture of the highest of God’s creatures, perfect in wisdom, beautiful beyond description, a musician and on top of all that, he was given this high, exalted position. But, this creation, with all of these wonderful attributes also had a free will. One day, God says to this marvelous creature, “Iniquity was found in you.”

          Story of Lucifer – His Status
          What kind of iniquity was found of him? In the book of Ezekiel, God has let us stand with Him at the very beginning, to see the origin and the creation of Satan. But, why does God say this? What is this iniquity? We must look back to Isaiah 14:12, which tells us of Lucifer/Satan’s choice. “I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon; I will ascend to the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High.” Did you notice in this passage all of the “I wills. ” He said he would exalt his throne above the stars of God. The word “stars” here does not refer to what we see in the night sky. It refers to the angels of God. In other words, “I will take over heaven, I will be God.” That is Lucifer/Satan’s sin and that is the iniquity that was found in him. He does not want to be God’s servant. He does not want to do what he was created to do. He wants to be served and there are millions who have chosen to do just that; serve him. They have listened to his lies and chosen to follow him. Eve believed the lie that she would be like God. The reason Lucifer/Satan tempted her with that was because it is the very thing that he wants — to be God.
          – See more at: http://www.allaboutgod.com/story-of-lucifer.htm#sthash.ZF633Bme.dpuf

          • No I am sorry. While your answer is indeed long ,it was not in any point in history unusual for a king to see himself as a diety. Even in modern times it’s been recorded and this is no different. As a lot of people use unrelated scripture to justify a belief, it’s simply not factual or historical. Satan being a diety is in fact non scriptual either as the Jews had no concept of such a creature but they believed the false accuser was the psyche of man himself.

        • Lucifer, Satan and the Devil are three different names for the same angel. Lucifer refers to this angel when he lived in heaven. Satan and the Devil are names for this angel after he became evil and came to our earth. The Bible uses many names for Satan. Lucifer was created by God as a perfect angel. He was called Lucifer while he lived in heaven. After he sinned and persistently refused to repent he was thrown out of heaven. When Lucifer was cast out of heaven he lost his name Lucifer and he became known as Satan. The history of Satan tells his story. Satan is the name that is used for Lucifer after he was thrown out of heaven. He is also called the devil. Satan is now a sinful, fallen angel. He has lived on this earth for about 6,000 years. But Satan has lived in the spirit world and most of the time he has not been visible to people on earth. Very soon the devil will leave the spirit world and will appear on earth in a visible form. Then he will be called the beast. The beast is the name that the Bible gives to Satan when he comes to earth visibly and claims to be God. Satan will appear on earth as a glorious, visible being. He will have the appearance of God. He will require the whole world to worship him as their god.

          The Bible calls Satan by many different names. Each name has a slightly different meaning. The many other names for Satan give a fuller picture of who Satan is and what he does. There are more names for Satan in the Bible than for anyone else except Jesus Christ.

          Hebrew name for Satan meaning “Destruction”. “And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” Revelation 9:11

          “Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, ‘Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.’” Revelation 12:10

          “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” 1 Peter 5:8

          Angel of light
          “And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.” 2 Corinthians 11:14

          Angel of the bottomless pit
          “And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” Revelation 9:11
          Anointed covering cherub

          “You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.” Ezekiel 28:14

          “And every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.” 1 John 4:3

          Greek name for Satan meaning “Destroyer”. “And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” Revelation 9:11

          “9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, ‘If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.’” Revelation 14:9,10 Who is the beast?

          “Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, ‘This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.’” Matthew 12:24

          “And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?” 2 Corinthians 6:15

          “So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:9

          “He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.” 1 John 3:8

          “So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:9

          “The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.” Matthew 13:39
          Evil one

          “I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.” John 17:15

          Father of lies
          “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.” John 8:44

          God of this age
          “Whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.” 2 Corinthians 4:4

          King of Babylon
          “That you will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say: ‘How the oppressor has ceased, The golden city ceased!’” Isaiah 14:4

          King of the bottomless pit
          “And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” Revelation 9:11

          King of Tyre
          “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.”’” Ezekiel 28:12

          Lawless one
          “8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.” 2 Thessalonians 2:8-10

          “In that day the LORD with His severe sword, great and strong,
          Will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent,
          Leviathan that twisted serpent;
          And He will slay the reptile that is in the sea.” Isaiah 27:1

          “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.” John 8:44

          Little horn
          “ 9 And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down.” Daniel 8:9-11

          “12 How you are fallen from heaven,
          O Lucifer, son of the morning!
          How you are cut down to the ground,
          You who weakened the nations!
          13 For you have said in your heart:
          ‘I will ascend into heaven,
          I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
          I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
          On the farthest sides of the north;
          14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
          I will be like the Most High.’” Isaiah 14:12-14

          Man of sin
          “3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4

          “44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.” John 8:44

          Power of darkness
          “13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.” Colossians 1:13, 14

          Prince of the power of the air
          “1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience.” Ephesians 2:1,2

          Roaring lion
          “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” 1 Peter 5:8

          Rulers of the darkness
          “For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.” Ephesians 6:12

          Ruler of demons
          “But some of them said, ‘He casts out demons by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.’” Luke 11:15

          Ruler of this world
          “31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” John 12:31,32

          “And He was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted by Satan, and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered to Him.” Mark 1:13

          Serpent of old
          “So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:9

          Son of perdition
          “3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4

          “Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit.” Revelation 9:1

          “Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, ‘If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.’” Matthew 4:3

          “The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.” John 10:10

          Wicked one
          “Above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.” Ephesians 6:16

          This list of names for Satan has been taken from the New King James Version of the Bible.

          There may be other names for Satan in the Bible. Please send me an email if you know of a name for Satan that I have missed.

          Very soon Satan will leave the spirit world that he has lived in for thousands of years. He will become visible to us and will claim that he is God. The Bible calls him the beast.

          • Great cut and paste. But again no good. Beelzebub was more Aiken to a regional belief,close to what we would call “The lord of the flies” Lucifer is still a Persian King and Satan is still a metaphor. None of what you posted proves otherwise. Again it’s a straight twisting from Dante Aligheris Divine Comedy and Miltons Paradise Lost. Feel free to believe what the Catholic Church passed as cannon or forget what you think is true and study for yourself. Either was. As Newton would say. “I have studied these things and you have not”. I do hope you find truth of you do choose to seek it out

          • Eric: I have given you numerous Biblical references to all of the names used for Satan in the Bible. HOWEVER, you only give man-made excuses. I believe that when you stand before God during His Judgement that you will continue to deny God and His Word. I am praying that you find God’s Truth prior to that moment. As for me, I am grateful that God has shown Himself to me so that I will live eternally with Him.

        • It is dangerous to have only a cursory knowledge of the Bible because it dispenses a false dogma.

          1st. Note how Jesus always cast out demons, cured the sick, and did miracles in His own name. Also, on several occasions Jesus deliberately said; “I AM”. This would never have been taken lightly by any Jew of Jesus’ time.

          Think! Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” When first encountered, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, when we look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement, “For a good work we stone thee not; replied the Jews, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.” (John 10:33). Now we see an actual claim. The Jews understood Jesus’ statement to be a claim to be God. In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews by saying, “I did not claim to be God.” That indicates Jesus was truly saying He was God by declaring, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30).

          John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. ” Again, in response, the Jews take up stones in an attempt to stone Jesus (John 8:59). Why would the Jews want to stone Jesus if He hadn’t said something they believed to be blasphemous, namely, a claim to be God? John repeatedly tells us of the Lord’s connection to “I Am”. See John: 4:26, 8:24, 8:28, 8:58,and 13:19. The Apostle Paul tells us that Jesus “..is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.” (Colossians 1:15-17)

          John 1:1 says that “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us” This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “…Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased the church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

          To try and grasp the Trinity, first understand that God the Father the Son and Holy Spirit are Spirit, light, awesomeness, power, justice and love — and He in no way conforms to a human’s understanding. Jesus told us God is Spirit. Shine two beams of light on the same spot, and you have the light of one, separate, yet also the same as the others. An example of Jesus’ light and the Father’s light as the same is at this true Near Death Experience here

          Next, try to grasp Jesus’ nature as being both totally human and totally God. To help you with this consider these paradoxes by early church father Gregory of Nazianzus (329-390 A.D.). Gregory used these to argue against Arianism.

          “He was baptized as a man — but He remitted sins as God…He was tempted as man, but he conquered as God…He hungered — but He fed thousands…He was wearied, but He is the rest of them that are weary and heavy-laden. He was heavy with sleep, but He walked lightly over the sea…He pays tribute, but it is out of a fish; yea He is the king of those who demanded it…He prays, but he hears prayer. He weeps, but He causes tears to cease. He asks where Lazarus was laid, for He was man; but He raises Lazarus, for He was God. He is sold, and very cheap, for it is only for thirty pieces of silver; but He redeems the world, and that at a great price, for the price was His blood. As a sheep he is led to the slaughter, but He is the shepherd of Israel, and now of the whole world also…He is bruised and wounded, but He heals every disease and every infirmity. He is lifted up and nailed to the tree, but by the tree of life He restores us. He dies, but he gives life, and by His death He destroys death.”

          Cyril of Alexandria (376 – 444 AD) says, ‘Indeed, the mystery of Christ runs the risk of being disbelieved precisely because it is so incredibly wonderful. For God was in humanity. He who was above all creation was in our human condition; the invisible one was made visible in the flesh; he who is from the heavens and from on high was in the likeness of earthly things; the immaterial one could be touched; he who is free in his own nature came in the form of a slave; he who blesses all creation became accursed; he who is all righteousness was numbered among the transgressors; life itself came in the appearance of death. All this followed because the body, which tasted death, belonged to no other but to him who is the Son by nature,’ [On the Unity of Christ]

          And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

          Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14 (written: 712 BC (Before Christ)

          Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Matthew 1:23

          For unto us a Child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder: and his name will be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6 (written: 712 BC (Before Christ)

          And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people. Luke 7:16

          In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

          because he had not only broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:18

          Jesus said:
          I and my Father are one. John 10:30

          The Jews answered him [Jesus], saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. John 10:33

          When many were about to stone Jesus for blasphemy (John 10:30-39), He said to them that said he blasphemed “because I said, I am the Son of God?” (John 10:36).

          You call Me Teacher and Lord; and ye say well; for so I Am. John 13:13

          But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
          And Jesus said, I Am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Mark 14:61-62

          The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. Psalm 110:1

          he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:9

          “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works.” ( John 14:10)

          And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5

          And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], My Lord and my God. John 20:28

          ..Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Philippians 2:6

          …For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9

          And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

          …who [Jesus] is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 1 Timothy 6:15

          Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high. Hebrews 1:2-3

          But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8

          Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Titus 2:13

          And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19:16

          I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24

          Zechariah 12:10 – And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

          Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:58

          Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven Matthew 7:21

          And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel (means God Among Us).

          Note: “his wings” Isaiah 8:8 …See the prophecy of the Tzit-Tzit (fringes of His gown) that Jesus fulfilled here

          “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Jeremiah 23:5-6

          Once, a paralytic man was presented before Jesus for healing (Luke 5:17-26), and Jesus said, “Man, thy sins are forgiven thee” (Luke 5:20). And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone? (Luke 5:21). But Jesus (God in flesh) knew their thoughts and queried,

          But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts? Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house. (Luke 5:22-24)

          And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God

          Revelation 19:11-14 – speaking of Yeshua/Jesus leading the Army of Heaven:

          11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

          I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (Revelation 1:8)

          Jehovah shares His glory only with Jesus…

          In Isaiah 42:8 Jehovah himself is speaking, and He emphatically declares “I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.” Again, in Isaiah 48:11, Jehovah is speaking, and He declares: “For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.”

          John 17:5 tells us Jesus said; “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”

          Of course that is Jesus speaking of being part of the Godhead Himself. Since God will not share His glory. And Jesus tells us He had this glory with Yahweh/Jehovah before creation. What more proof from Jehovah or the lips of Jesus do you want?

          The Scriptures bear unmistakable testimony to the creative activity of God’s Son, distinguishing Him from among the “things” created, as the Creator and Sustainer of “all things.”

          The Book of Colossians:

          The entire context of Colossians 1:15-27 is filled with superlatives in its description of the Lord Jesus as the “image of the invisible God, the first begetter [or according to Erasmus ”original bringer forth”] of every creature.”

          The Apostle Paul lauds the Son of God as Creator of all things (v.16) and describes Him as existing “before all things” and as the one by whom “all things consist” (v.17). This is in perfect harmony with the entire picture Scripture paints of the Eternal Word of God (John 1:1), who was made flesh (John 1:14) and of whom it was written: “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made” (John 1:3). The writer of Hebrews also pointed out that God’s Son “[upholds] all things by the word of his power” (Hebrews 1:3) and that He is Deity in all its fullness, even as Paul wrote to the Colossians: “For…in him should all fullness (of God) dwell” (Colossians 1:19)

          Jesus, Father of Eternity, yet a Son in time; Chosen of God and elect, yet despised of man; Born King of the Jews, yet rejected by them; Born of a woman, a virgin, yet had no father; Came from Bethlehem, Egypt, Nazareth. Prophecy says “Out of (Bethlehem) shall he come forth” (Micah 5:2); “I have called my son out of Egypt” (Hosea 11:1, Matthew 2:15), “He shall be called a Nazarene” (Isaiah 11:1, Matthew 2:23).

          See my other post for a discussion of Satan, the Devil, and Lucifer.

          • I did read your other post. Most is either out of context or simply not there and is a fabrication of the church to try and explain things. As i said in an earlier post. God is referred to in numerous places, both old and new testament as simply a representative of GOD. The deity is always capitalized on all 3 letters. Still a no go on that. Sorry, your references are simply incorrect, you know the words but seem to lack the meaning of those words except what somebody told you they mean. Let me give you an example you can study. The deity of the devil, You know that no where in Hebrew history did or do they have a clue what it is? I have spoke with several Jewish Rabbis on this and thats how i started looking into it. Now let me point this to you, If the Hebrews had no conception of it then why do we? Someone i wrong and i dont think its them. Would you? So we had to go back and see where we missed it. The words we were taught were there but the meanings werent. So hence i was wrong in what i thought i knew all my life.. Look into it without any preconceived notion and get back to me in a few days.. Blessing to you!

          • Satan in Judaism is not a physical being ruling the underworld, rather, in the Torah, the word Satan indicates “accuser,” “hinderer” or “tempter.” Satan is therefore more an illusory obstacle in one’s way – such as temptation and evil doings – keeping one from completing the responsibilities of tikkun olam (fixing the world). Satan is the evil inclination to veer off the path of righteousness and faithfulness in God.

            Throughout the Torah, Satan challenges God to test the true loyalty of his followers, including Adam and Eve, as well as Abraham. However, Satan remains inferior to God and is incapable of taking action on mortals without God’s permission. In the Talmud and Midrash, Satan appears as the force in the world, responsible for all sins. Some Midrashim claim that the sounding of the Shofar on Rosh Hashanah is utilized to keep Satan away as Jews begin to atone for their sins. Even the morning after Yom Kippur, many Jews attend services to guarantee Satan does not make one last effort to instigate Jews to commit sins.

          • Eric: For at the name of Jesus EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus IS Lord to the glory of God the Father. Phil 2:10-11.

            I leave you with a few Bible verses to mull over:

            Proverbs 18:2 ESV
            A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

            Proverbs 29:11 ESV
            A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back.

            Proverbs 1:7 ESV
            The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

            Proverbs 10:14 ESV
            The wise lay up knowledge, but the mouth of a fool brings ruin near.

            Proverbs 29:9 ESV
            If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet.

            Proverbs 14:7-9
            Leave the presence of a fool, for there you do not meet words of knowledge. The wisdom of the prudent is to discern his way, but the folly of fools is deceiving. Fools mock at the guilt offering, but the upright enjoy acceptance.

          • You actually study those and just not assume you know what they mean and get back to me. Because like everything else you posted. You’re so far out of context you haven’t much of a clue dear.

        • Lucifer is called a cherub in the Bible. A comparison of Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 will tell you that. And Jesus revealed Himself as God many times, which says you don’t read the Word of God… period. They didn’t put Jesus on trial for spreading love… He put Him on trial for claiming to be God.

          • No ma’am it doesn’t. Lucifer in itself is a Latin word and isn’t in any actual Hebrew writing. History writes these events outside of the OT. So either verified history is wrong or what you made that story to be is wrong. I’m betting history is accurate. And no Jesus wasn’t crucified claiming to be God. But was crucified to fulfil the will of the Father. If what he said was true then he threatens the entire establishment of the day. Please just don’t read but take time to study some.

          • I see Eric. So you think the Jews/Pharisees wanted to kill Jesus because they knew they would be fulfilling prophecy? I know as a Christian why He had to die. I know His death fulfilled the prophecy. Jesus knew Judas would betray him…. Judas didn’t know that or do you think Judas thought ‘oh its time for me to play my part in prophecy’? Did Judas not doubt Jesus was the Messiah, have a lack of a relationship with him and greedy over money especially being offered money to betray him? Jesus knew what he would do… Judas didn’t…. therefore the flesh had to have a reason to react to something. You are implying the pharisees had no reason to crucify Jesus other than the fact they felt they were fulfilling prophecy? Jesus knew He would be handed over to them. Why would He be handed over to them? What were they accusing Him of for Him to be arrested? Be careful coming up with your own interpretation. According to you I would read, “So the pharisees woke up one day and said hey, today is the day we are supposed to arrest Jesus and ask Pilate to kill Him. I know he’s nice but we gotta kill him according to prophecy.” Please don’t just read and self interpret….. take the whole chapter in context.

            News flash the gospel (good news) does go outside the OT. OT are prophesies about Christ coming. NT reveals He did and fulfilled prophecy. Jesus came to fulfill the laws not change or abolish them. Jesus fulfilled every OT prophesy and the only ones He didn’t, haven’t taken place yet and are yet to come in due time.

          • Great story but no. Christ was not the messiah they were expecting. The Jews are still waiting for the coming of the conquering king the were expecting and are STILL expecting to this day. They had no fear of his Son of God status because they didn’t believe it. He never claimed to be God and there were many before and after who have made that claim including Belshazzar,pharaohs,preachers,laymen and countless others. Please research instead of relying on Americanized doctorine

          • You try to sound articulate and educated but you read Scripture the way the Pharisees did, which is you don’t and make up your own laws. People like you lacking faith in God may listen to someone who picks apart the verses like you do so I stumbled on this guy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGNL97fZmU8

          • It’s people like me who actually study and actually take time to learn what it says and not just what I’m told to believe. But anyways feel free to believe all the falsehoods you choose. I assure you it won’t help you in the least.

      • You are correct. Lucifer was created by God as an angel and is still an angel who fell from grace from his maker and Jesus is a human being born of a woman impregnated by God Himself. Jesus is the WORD that was spoken to created the world and the universe and He existed in heaven before His spirit was place in the body of Mary as a human baby. Nothing has changed those occurances that I know of 🙂 It was Jesus’ choice to be born as a man, to suffer and die for our sins, that we could be made right spiritually with God again and gain eternal life through belief in His birth, life, death and resurrection. That is my understanding.

    • Jesus was NEVER an Angel as Lucifer was before he fell from heaven when he tried to be higher than God. Jesus was the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON of God. read John 3:16 KJV.

  2. I think the phrase in #7 could be referring to it raining on just and unjust alike? Matt 5:45…for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

    #5 referring to temptation. 1 Cor. 10:13….but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

    Thank you for your article.

    • G Lady – 1 Cor. 10:13 is about temptation, but #5 “God won’t give you more than you can handle” is not about temptation. It is about when life gets hard and we go through trails. James 1: 2 “Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials.” God will not allow us to be tempted to sin, beyond what we can handle. So no one is with out excuse. But life brings hard times that we are not meant to handle on our own. We need God’s strength.

  3. Thank you GLADY! William and Mary… Do you believe that humans can become gods of other planets and populate them for all eternity?

  4. The point being… most evangelical Christians would see a vast difference in the “mormon Jesus” and the “evangelical Jesus”. Or, dare I say… the Christ of the Bible. (Bible alone) Thank you for the input though. 🙂

  5. I agree that most see a vast difference in “Mormon Jesus” vs. “Evangelical Jesus” but that is only because they do not know or understand our doctrine. In reality there is no difference in the Christ we both believe in, the Christ outlined in the New Testament. True we believe in a modern day prophet (Amos 3:7- Surely the Lord God will do nothing except He revealeth His secrets unto his servants, the prophets.) so God can speak to the world and lead us just as He has from the beginning of time. God is the same yesterday, today and forever and I don’t believe He would change that pattern. But if I want to learn about a Ford, I go to the Ford dealership, not the Chevrolet dealership. If I want to know what Baptists believe I ask a Baptist, not a Catholic, Mormon, Muslim, or any other religion.

    • As a former LDS, I was truly changed when I understood the following verses:

      “Hebrews 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself[a] purged our[b] sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.”

      My brother, we do not need another prophet. We have the Son, the incarnation of God Himself. There is no other message that we need to follow, because the message of salvation was made perfect in Jesus alone.

      I pray that you also come to understanding of this verse and the depths hidden therein. Ask for the Truth, and it will not be hidden from you.

      • I dont pretend to fully understand the LDS but i do know that i have been told by one if i didnt convert that i wouldn’t go to heaven. As well as with jehovas witness. So what happened to all of the people before the 1800’s when those religions were formed? ? And doesnt the bible say marriage is one man one woman? Not one man 5 women? Just a question

      • Amen my brother. When Jesus uttered those 3 words “it is finished” it meant our salvation is completel in Him. We need no more prophets because all we need to know to have eternal life as been revealed in The Word.

    • For you, Jesus Christ is not the second person of the Trinity. For you, Jesus Christ might be god, but no different than the god that you yourself can become. For you, Jesus Christ and Lucifer are spirit brothers. These are only some of the VERY CRUCIAL differences between LDS and orthodox Christianity. Please, don’t get wrong what I’m about to say. I think LDS folk are humanly speaking good, moral people. However, it simply isn’t fair to take historic, orthodox, Christian terminology, turn it all on its head, redefine it and still expect to be called Christian. Granted, if these are your beliefs, that is fine and we can agree to disagree I guess, but I think it is selfish and patently unfair to ask to be called Christians after denying virtually every single orthodox Christian doctrine and then redefining them, thereby hijacking our terminology. By the way, I have asked a Mormon, and they have confirmed the differences as I have outlined them. In fact, they were Mormon missionaries.

  6. Fair enough on the education part. Do you believe that Jesus has a brother, named Lucifer?

    • Lucifer was one of the major Angels in the heavenly relm. Not equal to or part of the trinity. He was in charge of praise and worship. You can find his story in Ezekiel 28:13 His role was to lead whoever were created beings at the time to worship God. He wanted the praise that was going to God to come to him. Because he wanted to be God he was kicked out of his job. We are now Gods praise and worship leaders in the earth.
      To say he is Jesus’s brother is to say in some way he is equal to Jesus. That is and never will be true. Jesus is God in the flesh. The devil is a fallen angel. Jesus is not a angel. Also, this thing about being Gods in scripture is not talking about being equal to God the father . Remember in revelations Jesus is the King of kings or King over kings and Lord over lords. To have the teaching that you will someday be equal with God in authority and power is the same spirit that got lucifer kicked out of the heavenly relm. I’m not trying to get to a place of being God in some universe, I’m looking to be transformed into the eternal spirit and serve God however he wants me to because I’m greatful to Him.
      The focus of being God as your goal and not the focus of serving God throughout eternity is the anti-christ spirit. It does not matter what denomination or religious title you dress it up in. Non of us have all the answers and won’t til we are with Him but til then I’m trusting the Holy Spirit to guide me to the truth thru The Pastor, teacher, evangelist , prophet Apostle etc. walk in love and try to grow to be as God like as I can.
      Just making comments on this being a God thing

  7. Short answer- Yes-but don’t stop reading yet because I know that shuts most people down. We believe that all of us are brothers and sisters with Christ-even the 1/3 of the hosts of heaven that Revelation says fell from heaven along with Lucifer. Since the scriptures tell us that Lucifer fell from heaven can we not reason that he was at one time good, or else he would have not been allowed in heaven in the first place? Also do you believe that God created everything? We do but believe He has given all of us our agency to make choices-just as He gave Lucifer his choice to follow.

    • If the Bible is pure and perfect, you can’t add an extra book to it.
      The book of Mormon is an add-on, and why would God send a messenger to the U.S. (specifically Utah?) of all places in the world.

      Do you literally believe that you will have dominion over your own planet after you die from this earth?

      oh yeah, what about the special underwear?

      Mormonism is kind of like Islam, 72 virgins (be a martyr for allah and enjoy your prize) vs. your own planet (marry many and populate the earth for your future kingdom)

      • I don’t believe Jesus ever used sarcasm to love others or urge them forward to truth. That’s what got from your comment, although I may have misunderstood – typed word, not spoken verbally, can always be misunderstood or misinterpreted. Jabbing, however, isn’t the same as loving confrontation.

      • The Bible is far from pure and far from perfect. You really have no sense of history do you?

        The very idea of the “Bible” didn’t even exist until 180 when Ireaneaus, went to Rome and saw all the various congregations who all had different texts. It was at that time that he decided that there should be a universal (catholic) canon and church.

    • William, little bump in your logic. Where (in our temporal finite minds) do you think this interaction occurred?

      Job 1:6-7 NASB

      Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord , and Satan also came among them. The Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.”

    • Yes. Jesus is eternal. Here is one scripture reference… In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made… And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
      John 1:1-3, 14-18 (KJV)
      You can see him spoken of all through the Old Testament also referred to by GOD as His right hand. (If you search the phrase “my right hand” in the bible it is fascinating to see)

    • Your question makes no since. The first part of your question asks if Jesus is eternal. (forever) Then you give choice #2 or “Elohim”, which in Hebrew means “God”. My answer would be both if this is the question you are asking.

      • Hey Gloria and Carrie. Of course, I know that Jesus is eternal. I am asking this question to those on here trying to say that the “mormon Jesus”, and the “Jesus of the Bible” are the same. I say they are not.

  8. I’ve had a few friends and family commit suicide and in order to comfort the loved one’s somebody will say “they are with Jesus now” or something of that nature… Isn’t everyone resting peacefully until judgement day? Then upon judgement day isn’t it just about a guarantee that committing such an act as bad as this will lead you to Hell?

    • Suicide is heartbreaking. According to Scripture. The only unforgivable sin is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Or, in other words… spending your whole life denying the Holy Spirit’s draw on your life to confess Jesus as Lord and Savior.

    • Rebekka, There is not any one thing you or anyone can do to send you to hell except rejecting Christ. So even if you commit suicide, if you were a Christian (having accepted Jesus Christ to be Lord of your life), then you will go to heaven. Some people wonder if really bad acts will send you to hell. That is where some faiths like Catholics believe in works. What an exhausting thing to not ever know for sure if you have pleased God enough! It does not work that way. There is nothing you can do on your own to earn your way into heaven. We are all sinners, and like someone mentioned above..there is none righteous…no, not one. We have to accept Christs death as payment for our sins. I hope this helps. 😉

      • I’m not Catholic, but you may want to read James 2:14-26. It addresses how faith and works go hand-in-hand.

        • Faith withOut works Is dead, which means good works should flow from our love of Christ. But works don’t save, the bible says all our works as are as filthy rags and no one is good , no not one.

      • Not only do we need to accept Jesus, we have to believe he is the son of God, but also we have to be baptized (immersed because sprinkling is NOT immersion)

        • Baptism is an outward sign that you have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. Being Baptized is NOT a command.

          • Debbie,

            “Baptism is an outward sign” goes with this post because it is an unbiblical statement that Bible believing Christian believe.

            I could be wrong but I have never seen that statement in the Bible.

            Also, being baptized IS a command.

            Jesus said in Matthew 28:18–20 “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age”.

            In the original language that this was written in it is written as a command. These verses are known as the “Great Commission.” Commission can be translated as “an authoritative order, charge, or direction.” We, as followers of Jesus, are to carry this order out. It’s not an option. Baptism included.

            I also have heard that baptism is an outward sign that you have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. I am not sure when this started but if it isn’t biblical then it must be tradition.

            My goal in life is to be a Bible believing Christian instead of a tradition keeping one.

          • David, baptism is not required but should be preformed. If it was a requirement then the thief on the cross could not have seen Jesus in heaven that day as Christ said to him, and that would have meant that JESUS lied to the thief … Christ cannot lie

          • Concerning the theif on the cross Jesus had the authority to save him. Jesus was a jew living under the old law.The old law was not done away with until after Christ death.Christ church began in Acts 2 where believers were added to the church by God through baptism into Christ..When you read the New Testament of Christ you will notice words such as being clothed with Christ,, putting on Christ ,one with Christ, being raised with Christ, died with Christ, being born again…..If you have not done this then you are not in Christ.. It all refers to baptism, becoming one with Christ through baptism and going through that death, burial and ressurection with him and becoming a new person in Christ..please read and understand Romans chapter 2……verse 3.. know ye not, that so many of usas were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death….verse5…For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall also be in the likeness of his ressurection, knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him……..Many err not knowing the scriptures, In Acts 2:37 the people were pricked in their heart and asked Peter, What shall we do and peter told them Repent and be baptized every one of you for the remission of your sins……..( a command)…..So if your sins havent been forgiven and you havent been buried with Christ then you will not be raised with him when he comes again…Read through the book of Acts, look and at the conversions that took place you will see that when they came to know the truth they were immediately baptized knowing that without becoming one with Christ they would have no hope of Salvation if they died. I don’t know where the errant teaching came from that says just ask Jesus into you heart and you will be saved came from because that is not how one is saved.. Colossians 3:1 If ye then being risen with Christ, seek those things above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God….Paul is talking to christians, those who have put on Christ through baptism..The bible is the authority of God, if it says it your soul is at stake if you don’t obey God. 1 Peter 3:20-22a
            Which sometimes were disobedient, which once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us ( not by the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the ressurection of Jesus Christ, who is gone into heaven and is on the right hand of God…..Christians are baptized believers. If you are a believers then why do you wait to be baptized because baptism saves and of course you can’t be baptized if you don’t believe,, you must believe.
            Mathew 7: 21 says Not everyone that saith Lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my father which is in heaven.
            If one understands Gods will they will understand the neccessity of becoming one with Christ in baptism..This is where your christian walk begins, a child of God being joint heirs with Christ and when he comes again he will take us to that place his is preparing for us..John 14: 1-4
            Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my fathers house are many mansions: if it were notso, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you and if I go to prepare a place for you, I willcome again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there you maybe also. …………Search the scriptures

          • Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)

            Many Christians have claimed that one cannot be saved without being baptized and cite the verse above as evidence. Although baptism is an ordinance of the Christian Church and a command given to those who convert non-believers, Jesus never commanded baptism in order to be saved. Let us look at this verse in context to try to figure out what “born of water” actually refers to.
            John 3 in context

            Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, “You must be born again.’ (John 3:3-7)

            There are two conditions to enter the kingdom of God. Which comes first? “Born of water,” according to the verse. Does baptism precede being born of the Spirit in the believer? Jesus clarifies what He means in the next verse, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” Being born of water is referring to being born physically (the water referring to the amniotic fluid that breaks as one is born). This is why He said “You must be born again.” The first birth is the birth from water, or the flesh. The second is to be born of the Spirit, which is of God. I think it is pretty clear that the verse does not refer to baptism, but to the first birth. At this point, the “entering” is for anyone who is born again (i.e., born of the Spirit).

            Let’s go over the specific text in question. Verse 3 says that one must be born again to see the kingdom of God. Verse 5 says that one must be born of water AND the Spirit to enter the kingdom of God. The text tells us that these requirements are one and the same.

            In stating that one must be born again, Jesus referred to 2 births – the first the physical birth on Earth. Nicodemus recognized this as the first requirement, since he stated that a man cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb (John 3:4). In the very next statement he explains the two kinds of birth. “Born of water” refers to the physical birth, whereas “born of the Spirit” refers to being “born again” or the second birth. In the next verse, Jesus clarifies the statement explaining that “born of water” refers to being “born of flesh.” Jesus was clear and direct. There is no mention of baptism anywhere. “Born of water” never refers to baptism in any other verse in the entire Bible. The Greek word used is “hudwr” (Strong’s number G5204).1 The Greek word for baptism is “baptisma” (Strong’s number G908).2 If Jesus had wanted to refer to baptism, He would have used this word. In fact, the word (or a variation of it) occurs 112 times in the New Testament.

            A general observation of the ministry of Jesus Christ reveals that He never told anyone to be baptized in any of the gospel accounts. His discussion with numerous people about how to have a relationship with God have been recorded in the gospels,5 but in none of those accounts does Jesus tell anyone that they must be baptized. If baptism were crucial to one’s salvation, I would think that He would have mentioned it at least once! Was Jesus negligent in not explaining this to all the people He talked to in the gospels? I don’t think so! In addition, Jesus never baptized anyone to our knowledge, although He had His disciples perform the ceremony.6 In fact, He routinely sent the people off after being healed without baptism. Obviously, He gave the command to His disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.7 Baptism is an outward expression of what has already occurred within an individual. Jesus didn’t need to see that outward expression of an individual’s conversion, since, being God, He already knew what was in their heart.

            In contrast, Jesus talked very often about faith – at least 27 examples given in the gospels: Matthew 8:10, Matthew 8:26, Matthew 9:2, Matthew 9:22, Matthew 9:29, Matthew 14:31, Matthew 15:28, Matthew 16:8, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 2:5, Mark 4:40, Mark 5:34, Mark 10:52, Mark 11:22, Luke 5:20, Luke 7:9, Luke 7:50, Luke 8:25, Luke 8:48, Luke 12:28, Luke 17:5, Luke 17:6, Luke 17:19, Luke 18:8, Luke 18:42, Luke 22:32.8 Could it be that faith is the key to having a relationship with God and not baptism?

            The idea that baptism is required for justification perpetuates the Jewish notion of salvation through works of the law, which were repudiated by the apostles (Acts 10:43-11:18,9 15:1-11,10 Romans 3:30,11 Galatians 2,12 and Philippians 313) and the early church fathers. Yes, I believe one should be baptized in obedience to Jesus’ command. However, we should also love our neighbor for the same reason.14 I know that we do not keep this entire command, because only God can demonstrate this kind of unconditional love. Does this mean that we will lose our salvation? No!

            We are justified on the basis of faith alone (true faith – not an uncommitted confession of some belief). If anyone is trusting in any work of the flesh, then they put themselves under the entire law of God and will be held accountable to keep it all! (James 2:10,15 Galatians 3:10,16 5:2-4,17 Romans 2:12,18 3:2019)

            A careful examination of John 3:5-7 reveals that when Jesus’ referred to being “born of water” He was talking about the physical birth (“born of the flesh”), in contrast to being “born of the Spirit” or “born again.” Jesus Himself never baptized anyone to our knowledge, although the disciples did baptize under His command. In all of His interactions with people, Jesus was never recorded as commanding anyone to be baptized, although He often commended people for their faith. It would seem that if baptism were required for salvation that Jesus would have made some mention of it. We conclude that faith, rather than baptism, is required for salvation.

        • Baptism is NOT required to be saved and go to Heaven. It is only an ordinance just like the Lord’s Supper is. The only thing required is accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior and the fact that He died for our sins.

          • Paula an ordinance is a command I believe. If you are told to do something and you do it then you have obeyed that command. A command is an imperative, something that must be done. In Acts 2 the people said, “What MUST we do to be saved…… What followed was the command. God demands obedience to his Word. I would not want to stand before God and say that I know better than him. You know the verse where some stand before God and say Lord Lord didnt I do this and that in your name and God says I do not know you……. He doesn’t recognize them as a child of his for they haven’t obeyed him. We will be judged according to the scripture. I believe there are many who are not teaching the truth of God’s word.. Remember the Ethiopian Eunuch, he was taught the scripture more thoroughly and when he understood and believed he said,”Look, here is water what hindereth me to be baptized? And Phillip said, ” If thou beleivest with all thy heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God.” And he commandeth the chariot to stand still and they went both into the water, both Phillip and the Eunch; and he baptized him. …..Phillip gave his confession and immediately put on Christ in baptism. He knew what he needed to do to be saved….What hinderest me? ( What am I waiting for?)
            Ask yourself , if my sins have not been taken away am I saved? When are my sins taken away? Acts 2… Where is salvation found? Do I really believe if I don’t obey God but I just ask Jesus into my heart I will be saved? Can I back that up with scripture? Can I be saved if I have not risen with Christ? What exactly am I doing when I am baptized? Romans 6. Why all the urgency to be baptized in Acts when they believed?……It’s not..” Its only an ordinance””
            Christ established his church and there is only one way into it and that is through putting Christ on in baptism..At that point you become a member of his body, a member of his church, a christian… and to be one faithfully unto death.

          • If baptism is not required, then why did Our Lord Himself insist on being baptized? To set the example.

        • Baptist, Susie? There is nowhere in the Bible that says we must be immersed, even though Jesus was. In fact He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, he that BELIEVETH not shall be damned.

          • Should Jesus have said “he that believe not AND IS NOT BAPTIZED shall be damned,” if baptism were required? These are two main clauses connected by a conjunction, “and”. Belief is the first part of an equation and baptism is the second part. If belief is not present, why would someone be baptized?

            If you told someone, “you must chew and swallow to live, but if you do not chew you will not live” it is implied by the connection of chewing (first) and swallowing (second) that both are necessary. Therefore, if one does not chew, it is implied that they will not swallow.

          • If Jesus (God) made immersion mandatory, then He would not have told the thief on the cross that he would see Him in Heaven. That man was not baptized, but believed in Jesus to forgive his sins.

        • It also says that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works lest any man should boast.
          Works are a reaction or result of true faith but they are not necessary to enter heaven.
          Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Is the only prerequisite.
          Although it’s almost Unbelievable, that’s all it takes.
          God made it very simple.
          Jesus did all the work.
          But it must be true belief and if it is and there is time left in our lives – a tree is know by it’s fruit

          • Belief is a work of God, according to John 6:28-29 “They said therefore unto him, What must we do, that we may work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”

            Similarly, baptism is not a work of human merit, but the working of God “in whom ye were also circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the flesh, in the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with him in baptism, wherein ye were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.” Col 2:12.

            In Col 2 Paul is writing to the Colossian brethren, warning them, about false teachers that are demanding that they be circumcised (the same issue he was addressing in Ephesians 2 which you quoted above “not of works lest any man should boast”). The thinking of those teaching this was that Christians must first enter the covenant of Abraham in order to be able to enter the covenant with Christ. Paul explains to them that this is not necessary and goes on, in vs 11-12, to explain that they became Christians when the believed and were baptized. Faith and baptism are tied together. They are not the works of man, but of God. It is in baptism that one is “buried with him” and “raised with him through faith in the working of God.”

            Paul’s words in Colossians 2 is an echo of his earlier writing to the Romans. In Romans 6, vs 4-5 “We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection;” He goes on to explain that in baptism we, like Christ, die to sin.

            Martin Luther, who coined the phrase, “salvation by faith only” (something else not in the Bible), also said, “Through Baptism he is bathed in the blood of Christ and is cleansed from sins.” He also wrote, “To put it most simply, the power, effect, benefit, fruit, and purpose of Baptism is to save.” In response to those who would call this a salvation by works, Martin Luther wrote, “Yes, it is true that our works are of no use for salvation. Baptism, however, is not our work but God’s.”

    • Rebekka…if I am understanding you correctly you are saying that suicide is an unforgivable sin? Yes, it is a sin…but no it is not unforgivable. How many of us, if we were to die this very moment, would be without sin? We all have it in varying degrees. The question to ask is if these people were Christ followers? Did they profess Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour? They made a poor choice…but it was not in this one choice alone that determined where they will spend eternity.

    • Jesus (God) forgives ALL sin if we confess them to Him, EXCEPT the sin of blasphemy (rejection) of Him.

    • I’ve tried many ways to express my opinion on this without it getting too in depth and confusing. However, the answer is; Depends. Depends on what opinion you believe. And I don’t mean it LITERALLY depends on what YOU believe reflects what happens to you when you die. But to ultimately answer your question, you aren’t going to get an answer simply because there are too many opinions out there. Example; If you believe the notion that you simply need to believe in Jesus and be as good of a person as you can possibly be, you will go to Heaven if you die even from suicide. Or if you believe the notion that you have to be as pure as you can be without of any sin whatsoever to enter Heaven, it would be impossible to enter Heaven if you kill yourself because you will have committed a murder (in taking a life, your own) resulting in sin.

      • The ONLY command is to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior if you want to eternally live with Him. You can never “work” your way into Heaven because we always sin. Jesus died to forgive ALL sins (EXCEPT the unforgivable sin of denying Him).

      • After having a Very Loving pastor who has multiple degrees hanging on the wall and hearing him talk on many of these issues , I doubt that you are in a position to answer most of these Questions and comments. So I hope people take your responses with a grain of salt. No , I’m not Catholic, or Jewish, or Morman, but 100% Christian.

    • People who commit suicide are not (generally) in their right mind. I can’t know for sure, but I imagine God has compassion for that. If you’ve had depression, you know that it puts thoughts into you that don’t make sense – but it’s a chemical imbalance, just like diabetes. The fact that it’s in your brain just makes it harder to sort out and deal with. Would God hold a murder against a schizophrenic who honestly believed he was killing a demon? Who knows? Same with suicide (though less dramatic and far more likely). If you’re sick, if you’re not right, I would think that would be taken into account.

      • It all depends on whether that person has accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior before committing suicide regardless of what their state of mind was at the time. If they had never accepted Christ, they would not go to Heaven.

      • Jesus’ Apostle, Judas betrayed Him and later committed suicide probably because of the guilt he suffered.

    • a study of our “timeline” says that all who died before the Christ’s death on the cross were held in the tomb of souls, to which Christ preached during the 3 days. all who believed were put in paradise, and all who denied were put into torment. his second coming will not be to preach, but claim his kingdom.all who have died since Christ’s death will be judged according to His will, those who are in the lambs book and paradise will be received in heaven, and those who are not in the lambs book and torment will be cast into the lake of fire.

  9. Rhetoric! All of it sounds like a peeing contest! What’s your true message? I know what I know, and have had peace with this since my awakening, or enlightenment (whatever suits ones interpretation). Turn a stone and… ” He is with you everywhere, all you need is faith in him, our lord! Everything else is just rhetoric that makes one sound desperate to be right. There is no right and wrong when you understand his message, only solace and comfort in your heart.

  10. Shane,
    The title may be what throws people off and is causing all the uproar.

    In this present day being or claiming to be a Bible loving “christian” is very, very different than being a CHRISTian [little Christ] who is aware, experienced or knowledgeable of the Bible and who is a believer, follower, reader and student of such.

    I think that over half of so called “christians” in America are probably not true believers and when the going gets tough they will be going on to some other ear soothing, feel good, make me feel good endeavor [there’s a new one springing up almost every day – like weeds]. It’s similar to the Hokey Pokey -..”You do the Hokey Pokey. Turn yourself around. That’s what it’s all about.”

    People love to treat the WORD like eating in a cafeteria – pick and choose whatever satisfies you. One of the deep and great theologians of our time has said…”When we obey God, we’re not doing it for God…we’re doing it for our self. Because God takes pleasure when we’re happy. Do good ’cause God wants you to be happy. When you come to church, when you worship Him, you’re not doing it for God, really. You’re doing it for yourself because that’s what makes God happy.” Sadly I am not sure of a place in the WORD where we are to make God happy, please Him – yes!

    Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

    1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

    1 Thessalonians 4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.

    Hebrews 13:15, 16 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. 16 But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

    There really is a difference between CHRISTian, christian or church attender – only one has admitted their sin and repented thus been made a joint heir with Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God [not angel, good man, prophet or teacher]. The choice is up to the individual.

    • I agree with everything you’re saying my friend. I’d also say a major problem… like I said in the article is complete Bible illiteracy from even those who are authentic followers of Jesus. One of the greatest weaknesses of the Church is discipleship.

      • The majority of those statements go directly against the Gospel. The church needs to question the “Christianity” of those who make such statements rather than referring to them as “authentic followers of Jesus.”

    • I don’t know that anyone is getting thrown off or that there is any uproar. The only thing that would be considered confusing to anyone is that a couple of people are trying to say that Mormons and Christians worship the same Jesus. That is false.

    • Please don’t tell me you just quoted Victoria Osteen and claimed her to be one of the deep and great theologians of our times?!? I agree with everything you wrote except that statement. That woman preaches what she thinks will make people feel good. This is what is wrong with the modern day church…they want their members to ‘feel good’ and therefore tithe. It’s not about preaching the gospel anymore…

      • ALISHA –
        Thank you for your response to my post. To answer your question – the problem with my comment about VO was that I was not able to write well enough so people would realize my tongue was very deeply in my cheek.I almost gagged myself when writing it. If I thought she was a deep and great theologian I certainly would not be on this or any similar sites. You are correct to many”preachers” it’s not about the Good News of Jesus life, death, burial, resurrection and return…it’s anything else.

  11. I agree with some of what you said, but many of these sayings are true, but misused. 1. God does not want us to drop out of school, avoid church, avoid jobs, blow our welfare checks, and commit crimes that would have us thrown in prison. Throughout the Bible, not just Proverbs, he wants us to to choose wisdom over folly, or help ourselves by making wise choices. #2 God does want us to be happy doing his will 2 Cor 9:7. #3 You are right, but this is hard to understand. We are all humans created by God and in our limited understanding that would make us either be his children or his servants. #5 God will give us more difficult problems than we can solve ourselves, but not give us more temptations than we can bear 1 Cor 10:13. Muslims who worship the God of Abraham do worship the same God. Mormons worship the same God. Muhammad and Joseph Smith are claimed to be prophets, not God. You used a scripture about salvation, which is different. #7 The scripture you used has the word righteous. The statement you claim is false uses the word good, so you equated good to mean righteous. I do not see those as being synonyms. For example, I collect coins and a good coin is the fourth lowest out of 10 grades.

    • God knows who are his. Those who worship and obey and love him according to his Word are his. False prophets, the same are those that teach contrary to the will of God perverting the gospel of Christ. There is only one God and he is not divided against himself. He is the potter, we are the clay. All will bow to him on the judgement day. Sad will be when those in wrong say Lord, Lord, but he will say depart from me ,I know you not.. We are told that we will be judged by his Word. So search the scriptures, make sure of your own salvation..Salvation is only found in Christ. The church of Christ is the bride of Christ and one day he is coming for her..to take her to that place he is preparing for her. My desire is to be at that wedding feast.

      • Amen

        It’s sad to see everyone arguing, it’s like they’ve lost sight of who is really important. They’re forgetting that they aren’t fighting against eachother. The Bible talks about this bickering but you guys are too busy trying to right and who’s wrong and who’s right. If Jesus were sitting here in the flesh and you could see Him with your eyes…would you guys still be attacking eachother? 🙁 Forget about who is right, come together as one body here and give God what He so rightly deserves, our praise and our hearts <3 God Bless You Guys and I pray you guys can all come to the same conclusion that we are Brothers and Sisters UNITED IN CHRIST AMEN.

  12. Still waiting on an answer if you believe God created everything. But to answer about why would God call a prophet in Utah- if there is going to be a prophet he has to be from somewhere. Utah, England, Middle East, Australia- I don’t think God discriminates against people from different parts of the world and only says those from a certain part would be “worthy” enough to be called as His servants. Remember the Pharisees said the same thing about Jesus Christ being from their part of the world and Christ said, “…a prophet hath no honour in his own country.” John 4:44

    And absolutely we believe in God the Father, His Son, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost and we believe all of them are eternal.

    By the way, do you wear briefs or boxers? What brand? What color? Don’t you find it a little odd to ask somewhere about their underwear? But since you seem fascinated by it, we wear garments as a reminder of our commitment to God- very similar to the vestments worn by many other religions to show their commitment- Jews, Catholic priests, Methodist priest, etc. Nothing magical about it, no mysterious powers, nothing like that. Very simply a reminder of who we are and what we stand for.

    • William, I think you know very well the point Shane is making. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all eternal in your theology – but isn’t that because we’re ALL eternal? Jesus is spirit brother of Lucifer – but isn’t that because we ALL are?

      Here’s the crux of the question: do you agree with Lorenzo Snow when he said “As man now is, God once was; as God is now man may be.” This eternal progression is surely the very heart of Mormon theology proper, and it is as far from “traditional” Christianity’s God as is imaginable. Wouldn’t you agree that, next to that distinction, everything else doesn’t make a lick of difference?

      • Gary, absolutely eternal progression is at the heart of Mormon theology. Many early church leaders (not Mormon church) taught about the ability of man to become like God.

        Basil the Great (St. Basil of Caesarea AD 330-379) taught to not have our “being made like to God,” as our goal but rather to attain for the “highest of all, the being made God.”

        Clement of Alexandria (AD 150-215) taught about Christ that “the Word of God became man, that thou mayest learn from man how man may become God.”

        And the church father Irenaeus (died AD 202) taught that Christ “did, through His transcendent love, become what we are, that He might bring us to be what He is Himself.”

        The first signs of a doctrine being changed from possible deification of man doesn’t appear until about 5 centuries after Christ’s death.

        In Psalms 82:6 it says “I have said ye are Gods, and all of you are children of the most High.” Christ then references this scripture in the New Testament when he was accused of blasphemy when they said to him, “thou, being a man, makest thyself God.” Jesus’ answer was “Is it not written in you law, I said ye are Gods”?(John 10:33-34)

        The likeness of humans to God is emphasized in the first chapter of Genesis: “God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. … So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.” Does this not mean we look like God?

        We believe that we are literally the children of God and have the ability to become like our Heavenly Father- that we have the ability to be “joint-heirs with Christ” and inherit all that our Father has.

        I completely understand that the scriptures I quote could be interpreted to mean other things- which is why we believe it is necessary to have a prophet today- a modern day Moses or Enoch- to be the mouthpiece for God. We don’t worship the prophet any more than the people of the Old Testament worshiped Moses or those of the New Testament worshiped Paul. God called prophets from the beginning of time starting with Adam to teach the people and to lead them. I think we need led just as much (if not more) today than ever.

        • Certainly the Biblical passages are interpreted different ways. As for the church fathers you quote, I know they are commonly used by Mormon writers, but I’d have to see the full context in the original language to know whether they are being taken out of context. The word “God” here, for example: as in John 1:1, theos might easily be understood as adjectival, more like “divine” – which is, I believe, behind the Eastern Orthodox doctrine of theosis and reflected in the protestant doctrine of sanctification. Either is much different than the Mormon concept of eternal progression wherein each individual can become sole God over his own universe just as Jehovah did.

          However, that’s beside my point. I am not arguing here that the Mormon doctrine is wrong. In fact, your response makes exactly my same point, which is that the Mormon doctrine is completely different than the traditional Christian one. I think it could be considered a bit disingenuous (or at a minimum unhelpful) to respond to a traditional Christian asking about your beliefs to answer “absolutely we believe in God the Father, His Son, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost and we believe all of them are eternal”, knowing full well that your hearer has an entirely different meaning in his mind for the words “God”, “Father”, “Son”, “Jesus”, “Christ”, “Holy Ghost”, and “eternal.”

          Here’s another example: say somebody that I know to be a Muslim asks me “Do you believe that Allah is great and Muhammad is his prophet?” Would it not be unhelpful for me to answer “yes, absolutely”, without revealing that what I had in mind was the Christian God (whom Arabic Christians also call “Allah”), and that Muhammad was a prophet only in the forth-telling sense that he said to believe the Injil (i.e. the Gospel)?

    • William,
      In that case, the underwear are religious items like a rosary..plus it’s kinda funny.

      Also, you demand Shane to answer a question you already know how he’s going to answer but you refuse to answer if you believe you are going to be granted your own planet.

      That is my biggest question!

      Because if you say no or not exactly, then you are proclaiming that Mormonism is false. Simple.

      I have been to a Mormon center and a “Bible study” and found some very, very weird differences in the references to Jesus & God. Yes, yal read the Bible + the book of Mormon.

      Mormonism essentially tells me that the Bible is incomplete, not good enough.

  13. Thank you for posting about using scripture to determine if a well accepted saying is actually truth, according to scripture. Excellent. I think it is very important to address beliefs (Christian, Morman) according to the cannon of scripture. Gen – Rev. As stated, it is our point of reference for God’s truth. The New Testament warns that there will be false teachings claiming to have truth in the last days. So we must be careful to read and search for truth. [new paragraph] I was happy someone mentioned that Jesus paid the price for our salvation. If one sins by committing suicide (murder) they cannot undo what the blood of Christ has done for them. Our sin is not greater than the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. He died and rose again to be the propitiation for our sin. To sin again does not then undo what He did. It is a tragedy though. It is especially tough for the loved ones left here. We miss and have lost a part of us when a good friend or family member does this. But we do not have the power to undo what Jesus Christ has done for us. We must believe He died for us to be in a right relationship with God. We lost fellowship when Eve and Adam ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God said, before He sent them out of the garden of Eden, that Satan would bruise Jesus’ heal and Jesus would crush Satan’s head. That happened at the cross. Jesus was the first fruits of the resurrection and we shall all be raised to life that believe in Jesus. We shall also be raised to eternal life. We will have a heavenly body and live with God and Jesus in heaven forever. We will loose our mortal bodies for an immortal body. Only because of God’s provision for us in Christ Jesus. We cannot earn an immortal body. Once we have put our faith and trust in Jesus, then we are to walk in the good works He foreordained we should walk in. So the works to show our faith are spoken of in James. But the faith in Jesus, that He died on the cross for our sin, is what is necessary to go to heaven. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.” John 3:16-17 “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:8-10 [new paragraph] Reading the gospels and the books that follow them is much enhanced by reading the history on which the New Testament is based. (Couldn’t think of a better word than based.) The need to bring us back into fellowship with God (garden of Eden fall) is met in Jesus Christ’s work of dying in our place. He gave up His spirit on the cross. He was resurrected from the dead. He led captivity captive and rose again. He was on the earth for a short time and then ascended into heaven. If we believe He died for us and ask God to forgive us on the basis of Christ Jesus’ payment of His blood, God will forgive us and we will then be in relationship to Him, as He so much wants each of us to be. He created everyone, and gave everyone the freedom to choose to believe the Bible or not. If we believe and ask Him, He will forgive us and we will be His. It is our choice, weather we read the Bible or not. He preserved it so that we could KNOW Him and understand what He wants from us. Help me out, SHANEC3. I learned some things I did not know about other’s belief system today. Thank you for posting.

    • Darlene, thank you for your comments. We believe the same thing. The only way to be saved is through faith in Christ and His mercy and grace will atone for our sins.

      • Here again, William, we see the same problem. We do NOT believe the same thing. (1) The Christ of Mormonism and Christ of traditional Christianity are different. As you well know, for you Jesus is pre-existing in the same sense all of us are; for us, Jesus is the one and only uncreated being who created everything that exists, not just in our universe ruled by the progressed Jehovah, but of all that is. Jesus is one of a kind instead of being among millions. (2) Grace is completely different, as you know in Mormon belief God’s grace is sufficient for us ONLY AFTER ALL WE CAN DO, whereas our sense of grace is something that comes from God not only not depending on anything we do but in fact in spite of what we do.

        • Sorry Shane I didn’t mean to hijack your thread. This will be my last post and allow others to comment on your article.

          1. Gary, by agreeing that there are many different interpretations of the Bible only validates my belief that a modern day prophet is needed- to guide us as God’s mouthpiece on earth today.

          2. We believe Jesus Christ is our Savior and is the one and only Savior. In no sense do Mormons believe we are anywhere close to being as good as Christ. He is perfect- the only one- none of us, no matter how hard we try, can live a perfect life. We can become perfected through His grace and mercy provided by His atonement in the Garden of Gethsemane and dying on the cross. This is what will allow us to be saved with Him in heaven.

          3. I don’t believe even a plain reading of the bible would offer the idea that God has not commanded us to do anything in order to obtain salvation (why else would we have commandments from Him?). Christ said except a man be born of the water and of the Spirit he cannot make it into heaven. This sounds like at least something needs to be done. We absolutely believe the only way to heaven is through the grace and mercy of Christ- no matter how many good things I do or how good of a life I live, I cannot make it back to live with Him without His grace and mercy. (which ironically we are criticized, often demonized, by other Christians for encouraging everyone to live a good Christian life. Let’s say we are completely wrong in believing God expects us to act on our belief- would we still not be saved according to mainstream Christian theology because Mormons accept the Jesus Christ of the New Testament as our Lord and Savior?)

          • 1. I am not at all saying that. You can have different understandings of ANYTHING. This does not mean all are correct. To apply the same reasoning to your prophets, how can you infallibly understand your prophets? Maybe you’re misunderstanding what they’re saying! Do you dispute that even within LDS churches, there are many different interpretations of what these modern-day prophets have said? And WHICH modern day prophet should I believe? The Roman church would have me believing their pope and magisterium. People like Paul Cain claim to be prophets. How can I choose?

            2. So you do not believe that one day you might become just like Christ? What was all that talk about becoming God then?

            3. Yes, the Bible gives us commandments, but it is your assumption based on your theology that this is what saves us. Isaiah tells us that all our good deeds are like filthy rags, for example. This comes out in the question “why else would we have commandments from Him?” Why else indeed? How about (1) because we are grateful for God saving us, after all “If you love me, keep my commands”? (2) because the point of those commandments was to demonstrate that we CANNOT keep them – “the law was our taskmaster (paidagogos) to bring us to Christ.” (3) To demonstrate holiness to nonbelievers “that they may see your good works, and may glorify your Father who is in Heaven”.

            Also, I believe your comment about other Christians demonizing you for encouraging people to live a good life is a straw man. What Christian have you ever known who has told you living a holy or good life is wrong?

            Finally,”would we still not be saved according to mainstream Christian theology because Mormons accept the Jesus Christ of the New Testament as our Lord and Savior?” I cannot vouch for everybody who calls themselves a Christian, but I would say no, because your definition of “Jesus Christ” is wrong. The JWs believe Jesus was the archangel Michael and the new agers that he is a spirit guide; are they saved too? They would make the exact same statement.

          • Yes I think it would be very ignorant and short sided of any religion to say “You must be part of our church on earth to make it to heaven.” Mormon theology allows for every person to have an equal chance to make it to heaven. What do you believe happens to those who have died or will die and never heard the name of Christ or had the opportunity to accept Him as their Savior? -Sorry William but I jumped in the conversation in case you were done.

          • William,

            I have but one question for you: Do you believe that Jesus Christ is eternally generated from the nature of the Father or from the will of the Father?



          • If any man says he is a prophet of God, I will know he is a false prophet. There are no prophets of God today. There has not been any prophets of God since the early church. 1Corinthians 13 says prophecy will be done away with when that which is perfect is come.. God’s word is that which is the perfect will and testimony of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is the perfect law of liberty, perfect and entire. Complete. We are not to add anything to it . The word of God has everything that we need to know for our salvation.. and we will be judged by it alone. 2 Timothy 3:14-17. But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of Godmay be Thoroughly equipped for Every good work……….I believe, in my opinion, that is ,that if any man comes and says he’s got more to say than what God has given us, I do believe that man will be before God one day and will have to answer to him….Beware of false prophets…For they do abound in this world.

        • Gary, what exactly do you think “eternal” means?! Eternity stretches before us as well as after us. It literally means “without beginning or end.” You are limiting your thinking to a mortal linear progression, but God’s time is so much different than ours, and He can be everything and everytime at once. So if God is eternal and we are eternal, that means before this life as well as after this life. Which means Jesus, as well as ourselves, “pre-existed.” That does not mean he is not one-of-a-kind. His induction into this mortal life was far different from ours, as was his ultimate purpose. But he is just as eternal as God.

  14. #7 seems to be only half of a bigger statement “Bad things happen to good people (but not only “good” people) and good things happen to bad people (but not only “bad” people. What about the book of Job? Job was a righteous man but bad things happened to him. Jesus said “only One is good” and it’s none of us humans.

    I would also add the idea that we should never judge. That is usually taken out of context from the verse “Judge not lest you be judged” That is different from saying Thou shalt not judge. If you read on, it also says “judge with a righteous judgement” We ALL judge all the time. It is better to say judge actions not people. We aren’t supposed to excuse sin by accepting everyone’s lifestyles as legitimate alternates.

  15. I believe number 5 comes from 1 Corinthians 10:13 “God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.”

    • Number 5 does come from 1 Corinthians 10:13 but it is misinterpreted. It is talking about temptation and temptation only. Like the article said life is to hard for us and we need his strength to endure.

  16. Ummmmm, actually there IS scriptural backing for number 1. James 2:14-26, it’s all about the contrast of works and faith. “Faith without works is dead.” We don’t get blessings simply by sitting there and doing nothing! Faith is an active thing, not a passive one.

    • I think you got that one backwards Laura. Those passages teach that our Faith will be proven by works. Like the “you will know them by their fruit” passages. If you believe… your lifestyle should reflect that. It has nothing to do with God waiting to help the people who first help themselves….

      • Sorry for taking your thread space with talk about Mormonism, but I think it’s important to differentiate Mormonism from “traditional Christianity” (as they would say) because the modern tack of the LDS seems to be to say we’re all just one big happy family. The older Mormons would have been horrified, I think.

        To speak to this post though, I don’t think you’re taking #1 in the sense that it’s commonly used. To use it in the way you suggest WOULD be used by Mormons – “God’s grace is sufficient after all we can do” – but every usage I’ve ever heard has not been about salvation, but everyday life. Can I bring a specific verse to bear on that usage? Now you can certainly use examples like Nehemiah building the wall – he did what was right, and God blessed his work. I think the most you can say is there’s no specific Biblical backing for the expression, but don’t you think to say it’s anti-Gospel is overreaching unless somebody’s using it in the Mormon sense?

        • If we are living in this life, God wants us to fulfill what potential we can FOR this life. What makes people think that, while we are on this earth, God wouldn’t hope to take care of our temporal needs as well as our spiritual ones? When I work hard at something, I do better at it. But that doesn’t mean I don’t rely on God to take care of what I can’t. If I just sit there hoping I’ll magically get work, rather than going out and searching for a job, it’s never going to happen. But if I get off my duff and search, God will help me find the one that will be best for me. Admittedly, sometimes it may not be the one I WANT right away…but He will help me find where I most need to be. That is where I put my trust in Him. But if I need a job, He isn’t just going to hand me a job out of the blue. I still have to do my part. I can speak from personal experience, God has always worked WITH me. When I am doing what I can — be it spiritual or otherwise — He helps lift me further. But when I do nothing, He doesn’t really do much either. Other than maybe to urge me privately to do more work. 🙂

          I get that the scripture is more geared towards spiritual matters. But it applies to other matter as well. And I’m not saying it works perfectly every time, either — that would be too easy, there would be no trials to work through. But I have observed throughout my life that this is the best formula, the work combined with the faith, and that says to me that it is what God wants me to do.

  17. Unbiblical statement: Christians are hypocrites if they break any of the ten commandments (or sin in any way).
    We are sinners, just like unbelievers. Except that we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, which is a gift of God.
    Galatians tells us that the holy spirit helps us obey God. Paul describes our moment by moment war against sin (Romans), which we so often lose. Our hope, however, is in Christ’s completed work on the cross and His perfect righteousness that we receive on our records. Our hope is not in doing better by trying harder to be “good”.

  18. This is truly an amazing discussion…and a very timely one. Thank you all for your perspectives.

  19. The idea that we are not good in any way is not fully faithful to the doctrine of the image of God on man. Yes, there is no doubt that we are all sinful and therefore we do not deserve to be called Good per se. However, when someone says bad things happen to good people they are not thinking on technical theological grounds and not do they fully need to. They can say such a thing and be in part right because God is good and has given us inherent goodness ( not saving or the like) and this is why we can see beauty and great love coming from the unbelieving world… Aka the imago dei. The suggestion that we are all bad or sinners is true technically but it ignores another pet and is more religious in nature than honestly and humbly loving… Unbelievers are not helped or persuaded by this.

    • ALL of us are born in sin because of Adam’s original sin. The only way to spend eternity with God is to accept Jesus as your savior and Lord. Got sent His Son to die for our sins. It is only by accepting Him that we are able to live eternally with Him. Whether or not you accept Him is up to you.

        • You are correct in that the Jews would not agree with Jesus. However, they did not see the fulfillment of the Torah prophesies in the coming of Jesus. That is their mistake. When they stand in the presence of their Creator, they will know the truth, but it will be too late. There are many Hebrew Christians who are living today who know the truth about Jesus. In the end times, there will be a remnant of 144,000 Jews (12,000 from each of the 12 tribes) who will be saved and rule with Jesus in Heaven.

  20. Someone said to me, “Like the Good Book says, ‘To thine own self be true.'” Now while Shakespeare wrote some amazing literature, Scripture was not one of them. We dare not seek to be “true” to our own selves. Jer. 17:9 tells us The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?

  21. I don’t know if anyone has said this one yet but I’ve heard, “You’re so heavenly minded that you’re no earthly good”. Who was more heavenly minded than Christ? But He’s done the most earthly good.

  22. No, not really. No real “Bible loving” Christian says or believes any of the listed atrocities. People who actually love the Word of God read it, and study it, as often as they are able. But I suppose it’s the way of the internet article. Make a title that sounds out of this world in order to get people to read it.

  23. We ‘are’ all going to the same place. It’s called, ‘dirt’. There is no soul. We are nothing but matter. It is a stupid book that was a rip-off of anther ‘wives tale’ some 1500 years before it’s time. It is just a fairy-tale to get people to try and behave in a civilized manner. (When man’s law doesn’t work.) You people scare me.

      • Why would you feel sorry that some people are actually emotionally mature enough to handle the hard truth?

        • Truth &Rea ? Your kind always asks us to prove there is a God. You prove there is not. Much harder I would think to believe you are an accident in time than being created by God. I Believe !!! All I have to do is look around at this wonderfully made world. Big Bang ? Where did the substances come from?

    • lt will be interesting to hear you explain that to God. Oh and what if, just what if you are wrong? I already know you are but think about it.

  24. A good article, but the title is off base because biblically literate Christians would not believe or say such things. This just shows how big a gap there is between loving the bible and knowing the bible.

    • Well, “biblically literal” Christians would find a lot of atrocities apparently sanctioned by God, so…

  25. #2 God wants me to be happy ……… I agree with what you said that a lot of people use that statement in a way they shouldn’t.

    However God does want us to be joyful and rejoice, in all things, at all times. Not superficial circumstantial happiness, but a joy that goes much deeper than that. True joy is not affected by trials and circumstances.

    • I agree. I think the difference is that, while God likes us to be happy, it is not his goal, and it should not be our goal. A lot of messed up and sinful things can make you feel happy – at least for a moment – but if it doesn’t line up with scripture, we are not to do it. Some people justify adultery or divorce (that isn’t based on abuse or infidelity) and many other unbiblical things as a justification for their happiness, but when you take those vows, your happiness does not trump the necessity of your obedience. Continue to serve God and obey his word and he will give you joy, regardless of the “happiness” of your situation.

      • Well, I do think it IS His goal…it’s just that God has a much better idea of happiness than we do. We too often think of happiness as present pleasure, when in reality, true happiness, genuine joy, involves struggle and pain to add to the measure of its value. Real happiness takes time, it isn’t generally instant, and we are too often taught to believe that it should be. I think it’s a HUGE part of what is so wrong with our society today.

  26. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9 NIV
    This is the first thing that must be done before any transformation can be made in the sinful people we are. And as my Sunday School teacher says “Not just sorry you got caught”. It is the first step in Becoming what God wants you to be. The Faith that brought you to the belief that Jesus is the Savior of the world continues to work in you to do his work. But the work doesn’t save you. Faith comes first. Then reconciliation. Then faith continues afterwards to through the Holy Spirit to bolster your faith and produce the works of the Spirit

  27. “If God takes you to it, He will take you through it.” I hate this one. It implies that God purposefully puts bad things in our lives to hurt us, when the fact is most of our stuff is self created from not following His word to begin with. It also negates the fact that we live in a fallen world. Sin causes problems and heartache. Our own sins and sins of others. He is a comfort and a present help in times of trouble! But we shouldn’t be so quick to accuse Him when bad things happen.

  28. The bible was written by men, not god. Take the lessons to be learnt, but don’t assume every line is the perfect incantation of god’s word. God speaks to us everyday through the life we live. No one really knows what is, so don’t assume you do. Nitpicking differences in worship is how wars begin. I personally don’t need a church to worship, I appreciate all of god’s love around me. I’ve always had an idea of a creator before anyone ever explained it to me. A natural knowing that I’ve always felt. God is always speaking to us, all we have to do is pay attention. If you’re wondering, I’m a spiritualist. To me, even the term god is limiting. I feel our creator is so much more than what we’ve put in box. Labeling to me taints that natural knowing. Go ahead, chastise me for being a blaspheming devil worshipper. Religious zealots often spew much hypocritical hatred, all my love!

      • Where do you perceive your notion of a creator came from (prior to anyone speaking of it)? God has placed that knowledge in every human being; that’s why nobody will be able to stand before Him and say that they “knew Him not”.

    • Dear musicist88, if you would so kindly read 2 Tim 3:16-17 you will notice that though the Bible was “written by man” it was “through the Holy Spirits Divine Plan”. I think the God that created the universe can get the instruction book for His followers right, no matter who or when it was written…..”All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.”

  29. Good article! I know how frustrating this can be, but then I remember the “wonky” things I believed when I was not a true convert, and probably even some things when I was a new Christian. This isn’t a common one but one time I was talking with a co-worker about my relationship with my (now) husband. We got engaged about 9 months after we started dating and planned to be married 4 months after that (so, around a year from dating to married). She knew I was a Christian and said, “Doesn’t the Bible say you need to date someone through all four seasons before you know if you should get married?” …. I said, “No, it doesn’t”. And she said, “So you’ve read the ENTIRE BIBLE and you know it doesn’t say that?” I said, no I haven’t yet read every single book completely through but I assure you it doesn’t give that advice. 🙂

  30. “”Cleanliness is next to Godliness”.

    First of all, Jesus said “there is no clean and unclean”, so the Christians abandoned the Cleanliness Codes of the of the Old Testament.

    Christians were persecuted by the Romans so the Christians eschewed the customs of the Romans in protest and that included the Roman custom of bathing.

    When the Romani reached Europe, they maintained their code of personal hygiene which came from the Vedas and the Upanishads from their native India, while the “Christians” would bathe once a year, if that. When the Black Death reached Europe, half the population of the continent was wiped out, but the Romani remained unscathed. thus fueling the speculation that they were somehow “magical” or enchanted.

    “Cleanliness is next to Godliness” was coined by John Wesley.

  31. Isaiah 9:6
    For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.<—– This verse should clear up who Jesus is!

  32. Muslims don’t worship Muhammad. He was the last prophet. Muslims believe Jesus is prophet and Messiah – BTW. The God of Abraham is the same God for Jews/Christians (Issac) and Muslims (Ismael) .

    • The God Christians worship is the Triune God, wherein the Father sent the Son to die, to be the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Both of those statements would be vehemently rejected by Muslims and Jews.

      • IT was Constantine that sided and with his power pushed the theology with those who believed Jesus was both God and man (and later the trinity with the holy spirit), so a statement of belief, called the Nicene Creed, was composed to proclaim that. This was the theology that was passed on from antiquity. Those who refused to agree were banished. Others were slaughtered. Many who agreed and moved far away from Rome later sent letters to Constantine saying they had only had agreed out of fear for their lives.

        • Tankmc1,

          While your view is somewhat popular, it isn’t correct. Constantine didn’t side with the orthodox in the Arian debates at all: he sided with the semi-Arians. When Eusebius of Nicomedia argued for Arius’ theology at the Council of Nicaea, the bishops shouted him down and condemned Arianism. Constantine actually tried to restore Arius to communion with the church (and he would have!) but Arius died the morning he was to be brought back into communion with the church. Constantine was even baptized on his deathbed by Eusebius of Nicomedia.

          Further, Constantine’s son Constantius II exiled Athanasius of Alexandria multiple times (and even tried to kill him) because Athanasius defended Nicene orthodoxy while Constantius forced semi-Arianism upon the Empire. When Gregory of Nazianzus came to Constantinople shortly before the Council of Constantinople was called in 381, he was shocked to find not one church taught Nicene orthodoxy. All of them taught either Arianism or semi-Arianism. In fact, Gregory’s church was desecrated multiple times by Arians before the Council of Constantinople and Theodosius the Great reinforced orthodoxy.

          I’d recommend reading Timothy Barnes’ excellent book Athanasius and Constantius if you’re interested in what went on theologically in the Empire post-Constantine as well as consulting the works of Justo Gonzalez, John Behr, and Jaroslav Pelikan.

          Hope that helps!


  33. Regarding #6, if there is only one true god, why does one of the commandments say that people should not worship other idols? Seems redundant to state that.

    • There IS NO other God than the one TRUE God spoken about in His Word. However, many people create their own “gods” to worship like money, alcohol, themselves, that they worship. That’s why God warns against worshiping anything but Him.

  34. Number 5 is based in Scripture:

    1 Corinthians 10:13No trial has overtaken you that is not faced by others. And God is faithful: He will not let you be tried beyond what you are able to bear, but with the trial will also provide a way out so that you may be able to endure it.

  35. > What are some more unbiblical statements that you’ve heard Christians commonly use?

    “I am a Christian.” is the most common unbiblical statement I hear Christians make.
    If they were Christian, they would believe in Jesus. They would take the things he said to do as if they were real and as if he had meant them. They would sell their computers they use to write their blog posts and websites, give the money to the poor, pass through the eye of the needle, and follow Jesus in being a destitute hobo street preacher. But no, they instead go to megachurches and drive cars.
    Furthermore, there are signs to let us know who believes and who does not. Let’s turn to Jesus’s words again. Mark 16:15-18.

    > 15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
    > 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
    > 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
    > 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

    The important thing to note is that these signs WILL follow those who believe. It’s not that you MIGHT drink draino and live. It’s not that SOME people who believe will have this happen. This is the test. If you can’t chug the stuff under the sink, YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN. That’s not my call, it’s Jesus’s. He gets to say you aren’t.

    And so you aren’t. So stop claiming to be. It’s unbiblical.

    • WOW! You really pervert the Bible. Christians are given different gifts; one is being able to speak in other tongues, which is given to some Christians and not others. Some Christians are given the gift of healing and it is used today. To some Christians, the gift of driving out demons and this is being used today. Some Christians are able to handle snakes or drink poisons and live. HOWEVER the Bible also states:

      Iesus said vnto him, It is written againe, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
      – King James Version (1611) – View 1611 Bible Scan

      Jesus said to him, “On the other hand, it is written, ‘YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'”
      – New American Standard Version (1995)

      Jesus said unto him, Again it is written, Thou shalt not make trial of the Lord thy God.
      – American Standard Version (1901)

      Jesus said to him, Again it is in the Writings, You may not put the Lord your God to the test.
      – Basic English Bible

      Jesus said to him, It is again written, Thou shalt not tempt [the] Lord thy God.
      – Darby Bible

      Jesus said to him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
      – Webster’s Bible

      Again it is written, replied Jesus, “`Thou shalt not put the Lord thy God to the proof.'”
      – Weymouth Bible

      Jesus said to him, “Again, it is written, ‘You shall not test the Lord, your God.'”
      – World English Bible

      Eftsoone Jhesus seide to hym, It is writun, Thou shalt not tempte thi Lord God.
      – Wycliffe Bible

      Jesus said to him again, `It hath been written, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.’
      – Youngs Literal Bible

      YOU ARE TESTING GOD, but NOT following His Words.

      The Bible speaks of various gifts:
      New International Version
      We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith;

      New Living Translation
      In his grace, God has given us different gifts for doing certain things well. So if God has given you the ability to prophesy, speak out with as much faith as God has given you.

      English Standard Version
      Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith;

      New American Standard Bible
      Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, according to the proportion of his faith;

      King James Bible
      Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

      Holman Christian Standard Bible
      According to the grace given to us, we have different gifts: If prophecy, use it according to the standard of one’s faith;

      International Standard Version
      We have different gifts based on the grace that was given to us. So if your gift is prophecy, use your gift in proportion to your faith.

      NET Bible
      And we have different gifts according to the grace given to us. If the gift is prophecy, that individual must use it in proportion to his faith.

      Aramaic Bible in Plain English
      But we have a variety of gifts, according to the grace that is given us; one has prophecy according to the measure of his faith,

      GOD’S WORD® Translation
      God in his kindness gave each of us different gifts. If your gift is speaking God’s word, make sure what you say agrees with the Christian faith.

      Jubilee Bible 2000
      So that having different gifts according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, according to the measure of faith;

      King James 2000 Bible
      Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

      American King James Version
      Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

      American Standard Version
      And having gifts differing according to the grace that was given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of our faith;

      Douay-Rheims Bible
      And having different gifts, according to the grace that is given us, either prophecy, to be used according to the rule of faith;

      Darby Bible Translation
      But having different gifts, according to the grace which has been given to us, whether [it be] prophecy, [let us prophesy] according to the proportion of faith;

      English Revised Version
      And having gifts differing according to the grace that was given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of our faith;

      Webster’s Bible Translation
      Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

      Weymouth New Testament
      But since we have special gifts which differ in accordance with the diversified work graciously entrusted to us, if it is prophecy, let the prophet speak in exact proportion to his faith;

      World English Bible
      Having gifts differing according to the grace that was given to us, if prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of our faith;

      Young’s Literal Translation
      And having gifts, different according to the grace that was given to us; whether prophecy — ‘According to the proportion of faith!’
      Parallel Commentaries
      Matthew Henry’s Concise Commentary

      12:3-8 Pride is a sin in us by nature; we need to be cautioned and armed against it. All the saints make up one body in Christ, who is the Head of the body, and the common Centre of their unity. In the spiritual body, some are fitted for and called to one sort of work; others for another sort of work. We are to do all the good we can, one to another, and for the common benefit. If we duly thought about the powers we have, and how far we fail properly to improve them, it would humble us. But as we must not be proud of our talents, so we must take heed lest, under a pretence of humility and self-denial, we are slothful in laying out ourselves for the good of others. We must not say, I am nothing, therefore I will sit still, and do nothing; but, I am nothing in myself, and therefore I will lay out myself to the utmost, in the strength of the grace of Christ. Whatever our gifts or situations may be, let us try to employ ourselves humbly, diligently, cheerfully, and in simplicity; not seeking our own credit or profit, but the good of many, for this world and that which is to come.

      Pulpit Commentary

      Verses 6-8. – Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, according to the proportion of our faith; or ministry, in our ministry; or he that teacheth, in his teaching; or he that exhorteth, in his exhortation; he that giveth, in simplicity; he that ruleth, with (literally, in) diligence; he that showeth mercy, with (literally, in) cheerfulness. The elliptical form of the original has been retained in the above translation, without the words interposed for elucidation in the Authorized Version. There are two ways in which the construction of the passage might possibly be understood.

      (1) Taking ἔχοντες δὲ in ver. 6 as dependent on ἐσμεν in ver. 5, and κατὰ τὴν ἀναλογίαν τῆς πίστεως, not as hortatory, but as parallel to κατὰ τὴν χάριν τὴν δοθεῖσαν ἡμῖν, and understanding in a like sense the clauses that follow. Thus the general meaning would be – we are all one body, etc., but having our several gifts, to be used in accordance with the purpose for which they are severally given.

      (2) As in the Authorized Version, which is decidedly preferable, hortation being evidently intended from the beginning of ver. 6. The drift is that the various members of the body having various gifts, each is to be content to exercise his own gift in the line of usefulness it fits him for, and to do so well. The references are not to distinct orders of ministry, in the Church, but rather to gifts and consequent capacities of all Christians. The gift of prophecy, which is mentioned first, being of especial value and importance (cf. 1 Corinthians 14:1, seq.), was the gift of inspired utterance, not of necessity in the way of prediction, but also, and especially, for “edification, and exhortation, and comfort” (1 Corinthians 14:3), for “convincing,” and for “making manifest the secrets of the heart” (1 Corinthians 14:24, 25). He that has this special gift is to use it “according to the proportion of his faith;” for the meaning of which expression see on μέτρον πίστεως above (ver. 3). According to the prophet’s power of faith to be receptive of this special gift, and to apprehend it if granted to him, would be the intensity and truth of its manifestation. It would seem that prophets might be in danger of mistaking their own ideas for a true Divine revelation (cf. Jeremiah 23:28); and also that they might speak hastily and with a view to self-display (see 1 Corinthians 14:29-33), and that there was a further gift of διάκρισις πνευμάτων required for distinguishing between true and imagined inspiration (see 1 Corinthians 12:10; 1 Corinthians 14:29). Further, the spirits of the prophets were subject to the prophets (1 Corinthians 14:32); they were not carried away, as the heathen μάντις was supposed to be, by an irresistible Divine impulse; they retained their reason and consciousness, and were responsible for rightly estimating and faithfully rendering any revelation (ἀποκάλυψις, 1 Corinthians 5:30) granted to them. Delusion, inconsiderate utterance, extravagance, as well as repression of any real inspiration may be meant to be forbidden in the phrase. (The view of τῆς πίστεως being meant objectively of the general Christian doctrine, from which the prophecy was not to deviate – whence the common use of the expression, analogia fidei – is precluded by the whole drift of the passage. It is not found in the Greek Fathers, having been apparently suggested first by Thomas Aquinas.) The gift of ministry (διακονία) must be understood in a general sense, and not as having exclusive reference to the order of deacons (Acts 6:1-6; Philippians 1:1; 1 Timothy 3:8; Romans 16:1), who were so called specifically because their office was one of διακονία. The words διακονεῖν διακονία διάκονος, though sometimes denoting any kind of ministry, even of the highest kind, were used and understood in a more specific sense with reference to subordinate ministrations, especially in temporal matters (cf. Acts 6:2, “It is not reason that we should leave the Word of God, and serve tables (διακονεῖν τραπέζως)”). If any had a gift for any such kind of administrative work under others, they were to devote themselves to it, and be content if they could do it well. Teaching (διδασκαλία) may denote a gift for mere instruction in facts or doctrines, catechetical or otherwise, different from that of the inspired eloquence of prophecy. Exhortation (as παράκλησις, which bears also the sense of consolation, seems here to be rightly rendered) may be understood with reference to admonitory addresses, in the congregation or in private, less inspired and rousing than prophetic utterances. In Acts 13:15 the word παράκλησις denotes the exhortation which any person in the synagogue might be called upon by the rulers to address to the people after the reading (ἀνάγνωσιν) of the Law and the prophets; cf. 1 Timothy 4:13, where Timothy is told to give attendance to reading (ἀνάγνωσιν), to exhortation (παράκλησιν), and to teaching (διδασκαλίαν). He that giveth (οὁ μεταδιδοὺς) points to the gift of liberality, to the endowment with which both means supplied by Providence and a spirit of generosity might contribute. The almsgivers of the Church had their special gift and function; and they must exercise them in simplicity (ἐν ἀπλότητι), which may perhaps mean singleness of heart, without partiality, or ostentation, or secondary aims. But in 2 Corinthians 8:2; 2 Corinthians 9:11, 13, the word seems to have the sense of liberality, and this may be the meaning here. “Uti Deus dat, Jac. 1:5” (Bengel). In the ‘Shepherd of Hermas’ (written, it is supposed, not later than the first half of the second century) ἁπλῶς is explained thus: Πᾶσιν ὑστερουμένοις δίδου ἁπλῶς μὴ διστάζων τίνι δῷς ἠ τίνι μὴ δῷς πᾶσι δίδου (‘Hermae Pastor,’ mandatum 2.). Possibly this gives the true original conception, from which that of general liberality would follow. [The idea that the almoners of the Church, rather than the almsgivers, are intended, viz. the deacons (Acts 6:3, seq.), is inconsistent with the general purport of the passage, as explained above. Besides, μεταδιδόναι means elsewhere to give up what is one’s own, not to distribute the funds of others. Ὁ διαδιδούς might rather have been expected in the latter case (cf. Acts 4:35).] He that ruleth (ὁ προιστάμενος) means, according to our view all along, any one in a leading position, with authority over others; and not, as some have thought, exclusively the presbyters. Such are not to presume on their position of superiority so as to relax in zealous attention to its duties. He that showeth mercy (ὁ ἐλεῶν) is one who is moved by the Spirit to devote himself especially to works of mercy, such as visiting the sick and succouring the distressed. Such a one is to allow no austerity or gloominess of demeanour to mar the sweetness of his charity. On the general subject of these gifts for various administrations (cf. 1 Corinthians 12, seq.; 14; Ephesians 4:11, seq.) it is to be observed that in the apostolic period, though presbyters and deacons, under the general superintendence of the apostles, seem to have been appointed in all organized Churches for ordinary ministrations (Acts 11:30; Acts 14:23; Acts 15:2, seq.; 16:4; 20:17; 21:18; Philippians 1:1; 1 Timothy 3. l, 8; 5:17; Titus 1:5), yet there were other spiritual agencies in activity, recognized as divinely empowered. The “prophets and teachers” at Antioch (Acts 13:1) who, moved by the Holy Ghost, separated and ordained Barnabas and Saul for apostolic ministry, do not appear to have been what we should now call the regular clergy of the place, but persons, whether in any definite office or not, divinely inspired with the gifts of προφητεία and διδασκαλία. In like manner, the appointment of Timothy to the office he was commissioned to fill, though he was formally ordained by the laying on of hands of St. Paul himself (2 Timothy 1:6) and of the presbyters (1 Timothy 4:14), appears to have been accompanied – perhaps sanctioned – by prophecy (1 Timothy 4:14). Persons thus divinely inspired, or supposed to be so, appear, as time went on, to have visited the various Churches, claiming authority – some, it would seem, even the authority of apostles; the term “apostle” not being then confined exclusively to the original twelve; else Barnabas could not have been called one, as he is (Acts 14:14), or indeed even Paul himself. But such claims to inspiration were not always genuine; and against false prophets we find various warnings (cf. 2 Corinthians 11:3, seq.; Galatians 1:6, seq.; Galatians 3:1; 1 John 4:1, seq.; 2 John 10 Revelation 2:2). Still, these extraordinary agencies and ministrations, in addition to the ordinary ministry of the presbyters and deacons, were recognized as part of the Divine order for the edification of the Church as long as the special charismata of the apostolic age continued. Afterwards, as is well known, the episcopate, in the later sense of the word as denoting an order above the general presbytery, succeeded the apostolate, though how soon this system of Church government became universal is still a subject of controversy. It appears, however, from ‘The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles’ (Διδαχὴ τῶν Δώδεκα ‘Αποστόλων), recently brought to light by Archbishop Bryennius (the date of which appears to have been towards the end of the first century or the beginning of the second), that the earlier and less regular system continued, in some regions at least (it does not follow that it was so everywhere), after the original apostles had passed away. For in this early and interesting document, while directions are given for the ordination (or election; the word is χειροτονήσατε, the same as in Acts 14:23) of bishops and deacons in the several Churches, there is no allusion to an episcopate of a higher order above them, but marked mention of teachers, apostles, and prophets (especially the last two, apostles being also spoken of as prophets), who appear to have been itinerant, visiting the various Churches from time to time, and claiming authority as “speaking in the Spirit.” To these prophets great deference is to be paid; they are to be maintained during their sojourn; they are to be allowed to celebrate the Eucharist in such words as they will (cf. 1 Corinthians 14:16); while speaking in the Spirit they are not to be tried or proved (οὐδὲ διακρινεῖτε; cf. δια κρίσεις πνευμάτων, 1 Corinthians 14:10; and οἱ ἄλλοι διακρινέτωσαν, Romans 14:29), lest risk be run of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. Still, among these itinerants there might often be false prophets (ψευδοπροφήται; cf. Matthew 7:15; Matthew 24:11, 24; Mark 13:22 1 John 4:1), and the Churches are to exercise judgment in testing them. If they taught anything contrary to the received doctrine; if they remained for the sake of maintenance without working for more than two days; if they asked in the Spirit for worldly goods for themselves; if their manner of life was not what it should be; – they were false prophets, and to be rejected, Similarly, in the ‘Shepherd of Hermas’ (apparently a document of the first half of the second century, and in some parts corresponding closely with the Teaching, from which such parts may have been derived) like directions are given for distinguishing between true and false prophets, between those who had τὸ Πνεῦ,α τὸ Θεῖον and those whose πνεῦμα was ἐπίγειον (mandatum 11.). And even in the ‘Apostolical Constitutions’ (a compilation supposed to date from the middle of the third to the middle of the fourth century) there is a passage corresponding to what is said in the Teaching about distinguishing between true and false prophets or teachers who might visit Churches (Romans 7:28). The Teaching seems to denote a state of things, after the apostolic period, in which the special charismata of that period were believed to be still in activity, though with growing doubts as to their genuineness in all cases. As has been said above, it does not follow that this order of things continued everywhere at the time of the compilation of the Teaching; but that it was so, at any rate in some parts, seems evident; and hence some light is thrown on the system of things alluded to in the apostolical Epistles. It is quite consistent with the evidence of the Teaching to suppose that in Churches which had been organized by St. Paul or other true apostles, the more settled order of government which soon afterwards became universal, and the transition to which seems to be plainly marked in the pastoral Epistles, already prevailed.

      Christians are those who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and who abide by His Laws.

      • When I haven’t studied and can’t perform and don’t show up for class, I also try to find excuses for not taking tests, and hope someone will call off the exam. Sorry, babe. Real things can pass the test when it’s given, and don’t need to make excuses. Your god gets a failing grade for every test he skips.

  36. I disagree with #2. I believe the Bible makes it clear that God wants all to be happy in Christ. In fact, God commands it. Let’s take a cursory look:

    “Delight yourself in the Lord.” Ps. 37:4

    “Rejoice in the Lord always” Phil. 4:4

    “Rejoice and exult with all your heart.” Zeph. 3:14

    Yes, most misconstrue this idea. However, pointing to obedience alone as the solution will not correct this misunderstanding. Instead, point to the joy which comes from knowing Christ and him crucified. Happiness AND obedience may result because of it.

    • I think what he was trying to say is that God’s purpose for us is not happiness, but joy. Happiness is a fleeting emotion caused by circumstances, whereas joy, in a biblical sense, is a deep combination of faith, hope, and trust in the Lord’s strength and plan. Even when we rejoice in sorrow and praise the Lord, our hearts can be filled with unhappiness due to our circumstances. These are very different things I believe. I do agree that joy is an important part of our Christian lives, but obedience is also vital. Obedience produces a closer, more intimate relationship with God, which in the end helps us to practice joy in all areas of our life.
      I’m not exactly sure where this post was going, but I guess I am trying to say that it is all connected and linked. When people us the phrase “God wants me to be happy” it is usually used as a excuse to make an unwise decision that might make you happy or something along those lines. However, if we use the phrase that God wants us to have joy, that is biblically correct.

  37. What about the expression “you’re so heavenly minded you’re no earthly good”? I know they’re the lyrics to a Johnny Cash’s song and many Christians use that expression, but is it Biblical?

    • I am a follower of Jesus Christ (God) and I have NEVER heard a Christian make this statement. You must be referring to those who do not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.

  38. Wow! So much judgement on one page 🙁
    James 4:11-12 ESV / 165 helpful votes

    Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

      • Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
        Romans 14:4

        Honest error in understanding scripture is not a moral failure, and thus there is nothing to be “convicted” of, only corrected. The article’s writer managed to disagree without condemnation or condescension. Aren’t we capable of doing the same?

  39. May I try, for just a moment, to speak into the Mormon agenda here. I will not speak against any person…not the Bride…His church. I will speak factually as best as I can coming from both sides of an issue – and a THIRD side that many of you could not speak from. A few qualifications. 1.) Myself, released from the chains of Mormonism. 2.) Previously a Freemason (32nd degree) and 3) Born again Christian.

    FIrst, if youve ever had an Endowment ceremony…you may not know a few things. Passwords? SIgns? These things that were explained to have been given DIRECTLY from God?? They came directly from Smith’s time in Freemasonry. Lots of it is WORD FOR WORD. The entire ceremony is based off of his ritual degrees with Masonry. It was laughable being prefaced with the “direct from God” business when I had previously gone through the degrees of Masonry. I stood, knelt, etc thinking “are you kidding me right now? This…is a fraud.” Oh…and be glad that there is no longer direct naked touching in the washing and annointing. Be glad you get to wear clothes under the shield. But I ask you this: the original ceremony when it WAS done that was explained the need for the naked touching to say that it was needed as it is the ONLY way that you could fully hear and recieve God’s full word and see Him. Ok…so, if so…does that mean that now that the naked touching is no longer done….those who go through endowment will never GET God’s full word because the ceremony isnt done lie that? Lets think about this a bit, folks.

    If I have hurt your feelings…Im a tad bit okay with that…it means you will likely wrestle with this in the future as to whether or not Mormonism is truthful or not.. It does NOT agree Biblically with our God.

  40. God wanted to end their suffering so he took them home. Or he needed another flower in his garden. God doesn’t kill people. In John it states the thief comes to kill, steal and destroy but I have come that you may have life.

  41. Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, in the real world, people go hungry, nations go to war over oil, and many are persecuted because of the color of their skin… Who would Jesus condemn? Every. Single. One. Of. YOU! Hypocrites…. Why don’t you all put your hands to the stone and do something that will actually HELP someone instead of all your hot-aired blathering. What a bunch of BS.

    • Jesus (God) only condemns those who turn their back on Him; they make a choice to do so with the free will that God gives them. Most Christians work and care for others. I have worked in a soup kitchen and am planning an overseas trip to either Kenya or the Caribbean Islands to help the people in any way that I can. My daughter just returned from Panama to help the tribal people there. What are you and your cohorts doing to help others?

  42. Thank the gods. Someone finally gets it. The Christian god doesn’t want self-sufficient, worthwhile, and strong-willed worshipers. He only wants people who submit to His will without question or comment. Keep your genocidal god. There are far more gods of actual Good who would rather Their congregations stand at Their sides and promote acts of Good than grovel before them, apologizing for being mortal.

    • In the end times, many will be deceived and will turn away from God. God created people and loves them.

      • I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

        • What you permit or don’t permit matters not to God. He tells me through His word to tell others about Him. God used many women to teach others; some of those accounts are described in His Word.

  43. Referring to #’s 3, 8, and 9. I believe that God it the Father of all of our spirits. Our spirits were sent to earth to gain a body and that through the Atonement of Jesus Christ we can return to live with Jesus and God again. I believe that it is our choice whether we want to live with God again and that we will show our choice by the way we love God and others.

  44. Misquotes from the Bible-I think that was the question from the article:
    The “Golden Rule” is not in the Bible.
    Money is the root of all evil is a misquote also. The LOVE of money is the root of all evil.

    • Judah Smith does a sermon on this — the roads in Heaven are pure gold (rev. 21:21). If it is in Heaven, it cannot be evil.

    • I think Jesus asked a group who had asked him a question about behaviors or retaliations…have you never heard do not unto others as you would not have done unto you…? This is the Golden Rule far as I know….

  45. What about “Judge not lest ye be judged”

    Often misused and often thrown out when someone is doing something they would rather not be called out on.

    Scripture does not say you cannot judge your fellow brother or sister. The Bible states that if you are dealing with sin in your life – you cannot turn around and condemn somone for that same sin. Also – judging tends to take a negative connotation. It’s not about condemning in hate. It is about coming alongside and guiding your brother or sister in the ways of the Lord and not the ways of the world.

    Many people just throw out the first part…judge not. But, the Bible is all about context. You have to read the context.

    Matthew 7:3-5
    3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

  46. God is not in control and God does not allow satan to do bad things to us are other examples of fallacies Bible believing Christians believe.

    • God is in control of everything because He made everything. We live in a fallen world which is why things that are not good happen. God gave Satan dominion of the earth and this will end with the second coming of Jesus Christ. In the meantime, Satan will exhort his most devious inspirations upon the earth.

  47. I have heard so many times that when young children die, they go straight to heaven because there is an age of accountability. I don’t believe this. No one has ever been able to show me scripture that supports this. The thought of a child or a baby dying and going to hell is fearsome. That’s why I believe this myth was put out there. To comfort grieving parents. I know that in the Old Testament sacrifices were made for entire families and the nation as a whole on Atonement day so that the whole nation would be forgiven its sins as blood was shed. In Job, it says that Job made sacrifices daily, I think, for his children in case they had sinned unknowingly. They were adults but he still as their father made sacrifices to cover their sin. We know that through Jesus, a person’s sin is covered upon accepting Christ as Savior. A baby, toddler, or young child is not able to accept Christ. I don’t believe that christening a baby saves their soul. That would mean that somehow they loose the salvation that we are assured through scripture cannot be lost. I believe that parents are responsible for bringing their children before the Lord and asking His forgiveness for their children because they are under their parents’ authority. I think we need to seek the Lord’s forgiveness for our children until they are able to seek it for themselves. I know that many people will disagree with me, but that is okay. I am not trying to offend or hurt anyone who has lost a child or a baby. I just believe that accepting Christ is a person’s choice. It cannot be requested by another person. I know it may not matter to anyone, but a soul does not have an age I don’t believe. It is eternal. The soul I will die with is the same soul I was born with. It has not age like my body has. It is eternal and that is why it will continue on into eternity and my flesh won’t. Flesh and bone is not allowed in heaven.

    • One day Jesus’ disciples asked him, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” (Matt. 18:1). They assumed that Jesus would pick one of them—perhaps Peter, his lead apostle, or John. His answer must have shocked them:

      He called a little child and had him stand among them. And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matt. 18:2-4).

      I have lost 2 babies and this Scripture assures me that these little children are among the greatest in Heaven.

  48. Does anyone have info about the author? I would like to research his background. Thanks in advance!

  49. Deleon Javier Mario
    #1 one is wrong becuz freewill is what we choose to do to follow God. #2 is wrong is cuz God is good and anything not of happiness is not from God. #3 we are all relation to God, for he bought us when he sacerficed his self on the cross its our choice to choose sin or follow Jesus. We all posses the holy spirit becuz thats why sinners live everyday becuz he believes in us and is fair and is so merciful. #4 is wrong becuz cleaniness is next to godliness, becuz God is at work 24/7. Yes there is time for rest. But we must stray from comfortableness. Becuz that is the easy way. And the path to heaven is narrow. #5 is wrong becuz its a contradiction cuz god doesnt give us anything we cant handle becuz of jesus gives us the strength to. #6 is wrong if someone worships the creator of earth and all its inhabitants is the same God. But those who dont believe in Jesus Dont posses the power of Christianity becuz Jesus is the only way into heaven. #7 is wrong becuz Ephesians 6 its a spirital war of course the devil attacks followers of God. But that war can only can be faught thru Jesus Christ and the power of the holy spirit. Of course the devil attacks those who try to do the wrong thing to make them loose their faith especially someone who is righteous. #8 goes back to freewill we can choose to be good or bad angels. Thier are Angels that serve God in heaven, And their is angels on earth if we choose to posses the power to make us God’s angels. #9 is wrong becuz we all do go to the same place becuz we all will be judged after death.

    • We are not all God’s children; only those who accept Jesus as their Lord and God can be called children of God. Only those who accept Jesus possess the Holy Spirit. Jesus commands us to treat our bodies as temples of God. Angels are a separate creation from humans. Man is made in the image of God; the angels are not. ALL do NOT go to the same place; those who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior will reign in Heaven with Him and those who do not accept them will be cast into the Lake of Fire and will be forever separated from Him.

  50. I declared Baha’i in December 2014 after a long road of searching this lifetime for a truth I new was out there wating to be found. Raised a Christian, I studied and loved the Bible, I practiced the Book of Morman, the Bhagavad Gita, the Upanishads, and have now had the pleasure of learning and am studying the Katab-I-Aqdas which is the Most Holy Book. The Bible is a divine work of knowledge and historical references of illuminating scriptures from our All-Knowing and All-Merciful God and His followers, leaders, loved ones and devoted ones. Jesus was an amazing miracle of God’s energy on this earth, He came to shed light for the people of existence two thousand years ago that they may carry on abundant God-Filled lives. Muhammad soon followed to help save the east from their own continual wrong doings because they were not listening to the call of Jesus. Muhammad was sent by God to save souls. He led people with a Christ-like heart in order to help nourish and enrich the lands and the peoples. Baha’u’llah came as the second coming of Christ in 1819 he was born. He reigned 40 years from 1853-1892
    The words written in The Most Holy Book are actual translated writings from Baha’u’llah Himself (Glory of God) the manifestation of God that came and fulfilled the prophecy of our beloved Jesus Christ. I am an angel selected to witness this truth. My eyes have been opened and the truth revealed.
    Baha’u’llah came as this new Age’s manifestation to guide and show us the way to that peaceful existence we are all searching for. It does exist. It lives inside of us, as Jesus taught. Baha’u’llah gives us the written laws and further guidelines of a healthy God-Filled life. Where prejudice and rasicm exist no more. Where woman and man, though holding different strengths, are equal, where people shall love and worship the one true God, where all religions will meet at the place of the one true God and thrive from this union. Jesus said he was coming back in a later date, and he did. He was born Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí on
    12 November 1817 in
    Tehran, Persia (present-day Iran)
    It’s a progressive revelation- meant to wake us up. I pray for us all that we continue to grow in the Light of our one true source and Spirit. May those who wake up to this beauty obtain mercy and joy on earth abiding in the true nature and Love of God. The God that divinely Loves us all.


    O my God! O my God! Unite the hearts of Thy servants, and reveal to them Thy great purpose. May they follow Thy commandments and abide in Thy law. Help them, O God, in their endeavor, and grant them strength to serve Thee. O God! Leave them not to themselves, but guide their steps by the light of Thy knowledge, and cheer their hearts by Thy love. Verily, Thou art their Helper and their Lord.


    Noble have I created thee, yet thou hast abased thyself. Rise then unto that for which thou wast created.

    • The second coming is certain to occur. The very integrity of Christ is at stake in this matter. He declared: “I come again,” undergirding that with, “if it were not so I would have told you” (Jn. 14:2).

      Further, it is identified as a definite “day,” e.g., “the day of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Cor. 1:8; 5:5; 2 Cor. 1:14; 1 Thes. 5:2).
      The specific time of that event is not revealed. He will come at an unexpected time (Mt. 24:37ff), similar to the manner in which a thief stalks his victim (1 Thes. 5:2).
      The Lord’s coming will be literal. There are passages which mention “comings” of Christ that are representative (i.e., not literal), e.g., his “coming” on Pentecost with the arrival of his kingdom (Mt. 16:28), or via the dispatch of the Spirit to his apostles (Jn. 14:18), in the destruction of Jerusalem (Mt. 24:30), or in a disciplinary fashion (Rev. 2:5).

      But Christ’s second coming will be personal. Note the expression, “the Lord himself” (1 Thes. 4:16).
      The Lord’s return will be a “revelation” (2 Thes. 1:7), indeed a “manifestation” (1 Jn. 2:28), involving an “appearance” (1 Tim. 6:14; 2 Tim. 4:1, 8; Tit. 2:13; Heb. 9:29).

      Too, he will come as the “Son of man” (Mt. 16:27), in his glorified body (Phil. 3:21).
      The second coming will be terminal. Paul depicts the “coming” of Christ as being “the end.” Death will have been destroyed, and the Lord’s enemies will have been abolished (1 Cor. 15:23-24).

      Clearly then, since the dead have not yet been raised, the second coming obviously did not occur in A.D. 70, as the radical preterists allege.

      Additionally, when false teachers attempted to undermine the Christian cause by challenging the Lord’s “promise of his coming,” Peter refuted their charge by contending that Christ’s coming would be accompanied by the demolition of the entire universe (2 Pet. 3:4, 10). Thus, that coming has not occurred, and there will be no place for a 1,000 year earthly reign of Christ following that coming, as alleged by premillennialists.
      The general resurrection of the dead is connected with the return of Christ.

      The ancient Sadducees denied the resurrection (Mt. 22:23; Acts 23:6-8), as do modern skeptics. But the doctrine of the bodily resurrection is affirmed abundantly in the New Testament (see Jn. 5:28-29; 6:39-40; Mk. 12:18-27; Acts 17:32; 24:15; 26:8; Rom. 8:23; 1 Thes. 4:16; 1 Cor. 15; 2 Cor. 5:1-2; Phil. 3:21).

      The faithful who are living at the time of Christ’s coming will be transformed into his likeness (1 Cor. 15:51; Phil. 3:21).
      The day of judgment is likewise connected with the second coming (Mt. 16:27; 25:31-46). Note:

      Christ will be the judge (Jn. 5:22, 27; 2 Cor. 5:10).
      All human beings who ever have lived will be judged (Rom. 14:10; Acts 17:31).
      Each person will be judged by the law of God under which he lived. The ancient Gentiles will be judged by the law of the conscience (Rom. 2:12-15). The Jews will be judged upon the basis of Moses’ law (Rom. 2:12). Those of the Christian age will be judged according to the law of Christ (1 Cor. 9:21; Rom. 2:16).
      Human culpability will be measured by one’s ability, together with his pattern of obedience or disobedience (Mt. 7:21-33; Heb. 5:9).
      The judgment will be irrevocable. Christ declared there are but two destinies—eternal punishment, or eternal life (“life” = communion with God). There is no post-judgment redemption, nor is there an eventual annihilation for the wicked.
      The purpose of Christ’s judgment will not be to determine one’s destiny; that is fixed at the moment of one’s death (Lk. 16:22-23). The objective will be to both reveal and vindicate “the righteous judgment of God” (Rom. 2:5), which will be acknowledged universally (Rom. 14:11).
      The Second Coming of the Lord will be the terminal event of earth’s history. Every rational individual should prepare of this phenomenal occasion—one of either thrilling reward, or indescribable terror, depending upon one’s spiritual status.

  51. Do people really believe in god. I find it funny that u people r like peophets. U twists word when it favors your position. I cant believe there is an argument over. Morons adding to the bible. I mean god called prophets in the oldin days so why wouldnt call them today to speak for. Oh yea right he gave us scriptures so we dont need a face to face, that likes companies giving us automated answering systems because all u retards love how those systems jack up your requst ” I said insurance, not checking balance” and then those retards that believe scriptures were somehow written down like it some minutes from a business meeting. Buy a clue the bible was verbal stories and after centuries had past they were written. Nobody ever forgot important details or made shit up. I lived in yemen killing retarded religious fanatics. Their history and the quran were compiled after the prophet mohamad “thank god hes dead” died like 300 years after thats the culture history is past down through stories. I should become a pastor and spread the good word of god. How is it that god calls the most corrupt men to preach, men who like women children prositutes, drugs, alchol, and gay. It seems the ones who the fanatic about gays r gay themselves. So every man of god is gay.

    • That phrase exactly isn’t found in the Bible but Proverbs 13:24 says:
      “He who withholds his [as]rod hates his son,
      But he who loves him [at]disciplines him diligently.”

      It is a (very) rough translation.

  52. Using verses like Romans 3:10 out of context, plus the verse referenced in the second half of #3 does not support the statement you offer just before it. There are more examples of disingenuity here, but those two alone reveal you to be what you are – a purveyor of fake claims and/or poor scholarship. Please get out of whatever cult you are in.

  53. People always talk about “the rapture” but WHERE in the bible is it?!

  54. Everything is as God wills it…. too many Christians believe this but that’s actually from Greek philosophy.

    In fact God says that the Israelites did things that never crossed His mind…. “They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molech, though I never commanded, nor did it enter my mind, that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.”

    Jeremiah 32:35

  55. One of the most misused scripture is “Money is the root of all evil” the bible clearly states “The love of money is the root of all evil” big difference.

  56. All of the trivial debate going on below is a perfect example why no one should trust their lives or their belief systems on a single book. Read everything you can, learn everything you can, experience everything you can, Love everyone you can, and maybe then will you be the slightest bit justified when you say you know “how we should live.”

    • It is really sad that you make yourself into a “god” rather than knowing the God who created you.

  57. Your research of #5,I don’t agree with maybe you should read 1Corinthians 10:13.

    • That deals with temptation. Even in that verse God is faithful to provide a way of escape. So, we’re still completely dependent on Him.

  58. I do not understand this. Our only purpose is to love thy God and make him known. Not judge others for their misinterpretations.

  59. Where 2 or more gather God is near… The assumption God is only around when 2 or more gather. God is near to any who call on him.. Even alone. The scripture I believe in context is referring to when 2 or more ppl are in agreement

    • I think He was confronting the rabbinical religious tradition of minion, meaning that they couldn’t fellowship together unless there were ten men present, that became the rabinnic law. Yeshua was actually say it doesn’t matter if there are only 2 or 3 as long as I’m with you you can fellowship together regardless of how many there are.

  60. I have to disagree with a couple of your points. For instance consider:

    I Corinthians 10:13
    No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

    Matthew 5:44-45
    44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
    45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

  61. Don’t forget the myth “Thou shalt not judge!”
    Matthew 7:1 is one of the most misquoted verses in the Bible today. It is usually quoted by those that want to justify their own sin.
    If one reads the verse in context (as well as other verses related to it), Jesus is actually telling us we SHOULD judge… but to be careful when we do it, for we will be judged in the manner in which we judge.
    Our judgement should be like that of Jesus… with love toward the goal of salvation, not condemnation. But also like Jesus, we should never, ever, justify or minimize the impact of sin.

  62. That moment When people get all their info from the history channel and none from the actual bible… I believe in the Holy Spirit the father and Jesus Christ and that the living word of God is true. It is a message of love and I will do my best to emulate its truth and light to the world.

  63. Shane Pruitt, I disagree on a number of your statements above and would like to work through some of them with you. But I think it best to take them one at a time in order to avoid glossing over anything. Statement 1: God helps those who help themselves. This one may just be a misunderstanding, rather than a disagreement. When reading this, my first thought was of Naaman (2 Kings 5). I think when people use statement 1 they often say it to mean they cannot simply sit and wait for God to help them in their life. It is not that they believe they can completely help themselves without God’s help, but rather we need to be willing to wash ourselves in the river before God will heal us. Matthew 16:24 even agrees with my interpretation of statement 1, depending on your understanding of what it means to “take up [our] cross,and follow [Him].” I believe that Naamans actions were to turn to the Lord and trust his prophet (in my opinion this would be following the Lord as Matthew 16:24 requires), but certainly his actions were still “helping himself.” Could you share your thoughts on how the example of Namaan fits into your blogpost, and maybe what you believe taking up your cross and following Christ means? Thanks.

    • I think a question that you”ll primary need to answer for yourself to understand number 1: “Does God primarily react to us, or do we primarily react to God?” BTW “Picking up your cross” was a term of death. The first-century Hebrews would have understood this. Chances are… you have a hermeneutical problem – meaning your trying to interpret the Bible with a “2015 Western mindset”. Thank you for the comment though. 🙂

      • I think your question may be a difficult one to answer. My response would probably depend on what you mean by react. I do not think the reactions only go one way. I think that both God and people have the ability to act and be acted upon, so I think the relationship would be better thought of as interactions than reactions. Does that make any sense? That being said, I think that God generally sets the guidelines and tells us what he requires and then if we choose to “follow him” then the consequences will naturally follow or He will “react” and make them happen. An example of this is again Naaman. God set the rules, he “followed” or “reacted” and God healed him/reacted. Interesting that “picking up your cross” was a term of death. I was unaware of that. I agree I have a hermeneutical problem. I think everyone does to some degree. Though I’m sure study can lessen it, it still persists to some degree by the fact that we were not raised in that time period. (1) Do you think this meaning of “picking up your cross” changes the meaning of “and follow me” in Matthew 16:24? (2) Also, how does Naaman’s example square with statement 1 of 9? (3) How would you answer your question “Does God primarily react to us, or do we primarily react to God?” Sorry to throw so many questions at you at once, but thank you for the fast response.

  64. This is one of those lists that makes me so grateful that I left Christianity and reinforces for me what a wonderful decision that was. Never, never to return. Thank you for sharing!

  65. #3). Although, God has created everyone. . .not everyone relationally belongs to Him. Only those who have repented of sin, placed their faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, and possess the Holy Spirit of God inside of them can claim Him as their Father:  While it is true not everyone belongs to him relationally; not only is repentance and placing one’s faith in Jesu Jesus; acknowledging him as our Savior must be confessed so all the world knows. Hearing God’s word, believing it, repenting of our sins and publicly confessing Jesus is the Son of God is that is necessary to bring one to the point of the next to the final step, Baptism. Baptism is an absolute must. But then there is that final step instructed in Rev. 2:10, we must live faithfully unto death. That isn’t just til we die, it’s to the point of dying before denying him as our Savior.
    More importantly on point #3, that of “possessing the Holy Spirit of God inside them.” That is trying to say the HS is literally dwelling inside a person as one who can perform miracles. Simply is not possible as the only ones who literally had the HS within them following the death of the last apostle were those who had had the hands of the Holy Apostles laid on them. Apostles were the only ones who had the power to impart the gift of the HS.

    #5). “Actually, all of life is more than we can handle. The point of living in a fallen world is not for us to try really hard to carry our heavy burden, but rather give-up, quit, and surrender to God, that’s what faith is all about. Every thing is more than I can handle, but not more than Jesus can handle:” Completely untrue, 1Cor. 10:13 “There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.”

    Not only is he a God of Love, he is a God of Wrath ! ! !

  66. Interesting that this is a post about unbiblical sayings yet it leads off with statements that aren’t biblically based “Anything and everything that we know about God comes from these Holy Scriptures, and they contain the totality of what we need to know about becoming a Christian, and everything that we need to know about living the Christian life.”

  67. God brought you to it. He will bring you through it. I hear this alot. The problem with this for me is not him bringing me through because he will but more often than not it not Him who brought me to it lol. It’s usually a poor choice that brings tough things

    • Proverbs 13:24Wycliffe Bible (WYC)
      24 He that spareth the rod, hateth his son; but he that loveth him, teacheth busily (but he who loveth him, busily teacheth him).

      Proverbs 13:24 (EXB)
      24 If you ·do not punish your children [L withhold/T spare the rod], you ·don’t love them [hate your children/son],
      but if you love your children, you will ·correct [discipline] them.

  68. Arguing back and forth does no good and doesn’t further the ideal of Christian love. You either believe the Bible is the infallible truth or you don’t. End of story. Quit bickering like children. Name calling and belittling others views will not win them to Christ. Think about that.

    • I suspect this article was written as more of an iron-sharpening-iron tool than for outreach. But it’s certainly true that love, not homodoxy, is the defining characteristic of someone who truly knows God.

  69. 13 years of Parochial education. Years of listening to a variety of clergy, including listening to an uncle who became a pastor. The one thing I finally realized by reading the Bible myself, was what it honestly took to gain Heaven. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son. That whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16 Enough said.

  70. I think some of these are taken out of context and worded to make those who believe some of them sound wrong. I agree with very few of these arguments.

  71. Ok while your article is well written I am urged to inform you of some things

    1. God helps those who help themselves. (Umm no)
    in fact not a christian belief (if you thought it is then it is you who were misinformed)
    this is a common saying among many people who try to justify their actions

    2. God wants me to be happy. (this is extremely vague)
    This is actually both true and false depending on your outlook.
    1 – God wants us to be happy (true: god doesn’t want us to live our lives in fear, doubt, hate, etc…)
    2 – god wants us to be happy (false: while god wants us to live in happiness this does not make God our source for all things that make us happy, or more specifically he is not going to grant our every wish)

    3. We’re all God’s children (umm true)
    How exactly did you prove this wrong again??
    you point out how those who don’t practice righteousness are “not of God” but that doesn’t state in solid or explicit terms that they are not God’s children. (and don’t go all crazy, but this is a statement that is used Very Nearly in situations within the church; where by your own “proof” is true)

    4. Cleanliness is next to Godliness (Umm no)
    This is also not a christian “belief” in fact if I am not mistaken this is taken from as far back as the Greeks (I understand that you tried to do some research but you should really try here)

    5. God won’t give you more than you can handle (true)
    You have not stated any “Proof” that has stated where a person (in the service of God) simply dropped dead (not martyred) from having to much of a load.

    6. We all worship the same God (Umm)
    You have stated some very non christian religious figures there buddy. get your facts straight

    7. Bad things happen to good people (true)
    this is not only biblical but it goes to show how you have not spent any time in research (because you have to look for more than just a verse that looks like this)
    for example – “In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike.” Matthew 5:45
    just because something doesn’t immediately seem obvious look deeper.

    8. When you die, God gains another angel (Umm no)
    This is not to my knowledge a christian saying (as this is the first time I have ever heard it)

    9. We’re all going to the same place when we die (Umm no)
    As you pointed out there are two very distinct biblical destinations after death, any one who says this is obviously not well informed.

    just some thoughts to consider.

  72. Thank you for including #5. This is my biggest pet peeve. We confuse “You will not be tempted beyond what you can bear” with this. Sometimes we do have more than what we can bear. That’s when we must lean on His shoulder and let Him comfort us.

  73. Fascinating conversation, of which no one will end up with the actual truth and since none of us were really there, it is my summation that the “truth” will be revealed the moment after our final breath…and not before.

    • Grammycross: if that happens like you think it happens, it will be too late. The time is now to learn of God and His word.

  74. Back to the original topic – remember that? One of the more stupid, and amusing, gaffes came from a TV host that apparently grew up in a Christian home, but doesn’t remember much of what he read. He will often say, “Thou shall tell the truth and the truth will make you free.” I think a lot of Christians fall for that. The verse really says that we will know the truth and the truth will set us free. And since Jesus is the Light, the Truth and the Way, makes that one easier.

    Another one is “to thine ownself be true.” Shakespeare was good, but what he says is simply not on par with Jesus!!

  75. I wouldn’t say any of those popular if unscriptural things. For one thing, they sound too hopeful and pleasant to be true. To be really true, they have to be grim, painful and depressing.

  76. Number 9, only two destinations heaven or hell. The Bible says: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalm 146:4) Therefore, when we die, we cease to exist. The dead can’t think, act, or feel anything. That being said we just die, we don’t go to heaven or hell, we have to be resurrected!

    • I think that phrase is used poetically, not literally. Ecclesiastes and Psalms are both full of figurative speech. And the Bible has plenty of support for a literal heaven and a hell and the eternality of our spirits. It’s a huge theological statement to say there’s no heaven or hell, and a huge deviation from Christian teaching.

      • John 3:13 confirms no man has ascended to heaven. Words of Christ. Hebrews 11:12-13 says they all died having not received the promise. I personally had to change what I though was true to fit the Bible and not the other way. It’s hard but I believe when you are stuck on what we think we know and are not willing to change it to what the word actually says then we become just another part Of the Americanized church of false teaching. What he said is accurate.

  77. Hi, Shane.

    Enjoyed the article.

    Several years ago, our daughter, Laura, passed away. She was severely disabled from birth. Stacy and I had cared for her ourselves day and night for 24 years.

    I’d also always been a fan of C. S. Lewis since first reading The Chronicles of Narnia before we got married. Several years before and after Laura’s death, I began relistened to Mere Christianity daily and repeatedly. After her passing, I began teaching adult Sunday School at my church also, and started writing articles on my blog site. All this strengthened my already grounded resolve in Christ Jesus.

    I would that there were more Christian bloggers and writers who write like you and I. We need to especially hear our own voices saying the things we believe in our heart. Keep up the good fight!

    Warmest regards in Christ,

    Ron Smith, MD

  78. My church is better than your church. My version of the Bible is better than your version of the Bible. Clearly, the way to achieve salvation is by elucidating and perfectly following convoluted rules and nuances of Christianity hidden away in ancient texts. At least we can all agree that Muslims are going to hell. /sarcasm

    • God and His rules certainly are not “convoluted” and are not “hidden away in ancient texts”. They are readily available to all.

  79. Posts / blogs such as this kind provide helpful examples of how NOT to write a blog. Anyone trying to post limits or exact measures on what God can or cannot, does or does not, will or will not do have no real comprehension of the concept of Omnipotence.

  80. I love it when people who are terribly ignorant of biblical facts and history love to comment on it in such dept as to why it should be ignored completely so that we should all be atheists and follow the atheist religion, and yes that is a religion. Anyone who puts that much time into being upset about other religions and telling others how they should believe is preaching their own beliefs as an alternative. Heck, you even have your own church now. So please, go tell Muslims how to believe and leave me alone.

  81. I really love that this is Craig Groeschell’s “God never said that” series he did for LifeChurch almost verbatim with exact same scriptures and all, and you tried to pass it off as your own.



  82. There are a lot of comments about the Bible being pieced together, added to, changed, etc., I’m amazed at the incredible intricacy of the Bible’s order since the 66 books link up exactly 3 times with the corresponding 22 Hebrew letters and their representative meanings. Hard to explain here. You can learn more in Crossing the Scriptures (http://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Scriptures-Debra-Chapoton-ebook/dp/B004ZXX36Q/) or the Bible Wheel. Anyway, there’s no doubt in my mind that the Bible is the true inspired word of God. This article, Shane, is wonderful! You really have a gift for explaining concisely. Thank you! and God bless you!

  83. F.R.O.G. – Fully rely on God
    Matthew 11:28 says to give any/all of life’s burdens to God and He will give us rest.

  84. The Bible never tells us to ask Jesus into our hearts, even though he does stand at the door and knock. For the real way of salvation is more easily found in Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. You must believe that he is Lord (or other words God mormons dont believe he is truly God they believe he was the brother of Satan. neither do Jehovah’s. They believe he is a powerful God and not the All powerful God.) Or fully man and fully God, and confess with your mouth ie. prayer. Also you must believe that he was raised from the dead, in other words the resurrection. That’s all you have to do to be saved plain and simple.

  85. #9 needs to be revisited. we all sleep when we die until judgement day… no heaven or hell in the meantime.

    • Absent from the body present with the Lord. Specific verse on that. Also, Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration and they were very much awake. The “soul sleep” theory is very weak.

      • 1 Thessalonians 4 does confirm what he says. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord 1st Corinthians.

  86. I don’t want to participate in all the above discussions, I just want to add another quote that is not Biblical – “All men are created equal.” People have confused the Constitution with the Bible.

  87. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=hn8NVeOuGMWryASQ74LwAw&url=http://www.monumentalmovie.com/&ved=0CEcQFjAB&usg=AFQjCNGmWjGLXjDjUAzh8G_MwDNyDKISAw&sig2=vfvupVhUUM5V_F-xrdI0BQ

    When I watched this documentary, I discovered some history I never knew. Watch and learn interesting history of the Word in print.
    In these discussions, I’m also reminded of Corrie Ten Boome. She carried a few pages from a Bible while she was in the concentration camp. Those few pages were so precious to her and the other women in the camp. I do not claim to be a scholar. I do not know the complete history of how the Bible, as we know it was put together. All I know, is that God speaks to me through this Bible I know today. If I knew Greek and Hebrew, I would be happy to read the original text. There is too much turmoil in our world. Still today, there are underground churches, if discovered, people are killed for reading God’s Word. The Bible holds truth.

  88. All the arguing that has gone above means nothing, nada, nothing. All you need to do is believe in Jesus, and Live by the word of God and the rules he gave Moses
    , that is ALL! Simple, simple…no arguments, it is not complicated. all the arguments mean nothing.

    • Unfortunately no one has ever managed to lice by the rules G-d Gave to Moses. Let alone the Rules that Jesus Gave at the sermon on the mount – if so we probably aught all be living with one eye and one arm.
      Fortunately G-d also sent the Holy Spirit to those who believe so that by HIS Grace we may be saved

    • Billy Graham said in 2004: I can assure you that the devil is not going to heaven, nor are his followers. Jesus said that at the final judgment God will say, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41).

      It is true that the devil “believes” in God–that is, he believes God exists. But this is a far cry from the kind of faith we are called to have. To truly believe in God means to trust Him–in other words, we not only believe He exists, but we actually commit our lives to Him and trust Him to save us through Jesus Christ.

      Yes, the devil believes God exists–in fact, he has no doubts about it. But he doesn’t trust God to save him; instead, he has set himself up in opposition to God and wants nothing to do with him. He also knows that some day the final battle will be fought and that God alone will be victorious. That is why the Bible says, “Even the demons believe that–and shudder” (James 2:19). Satan will not win!

      The Bible says, “without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him” (Hebrews 11:6). Don’t be content with a shallow belief, but by faith commit your life to Christ and trust Him alone for your salvation.

  89. Sorry, but the responses to #1 and #5 are some of the most pathetic things I’ve ever read. I feel so, so sad for all of the people that feel helpless without imaginary beings.

    If everything is too hard to handle without god, how is it that an atheist (since a very young age) is able to live a happy, healthy, peaceful, stable life? If apostasy is the one unforgivable sin, would I not already be too far gone for god to bother helping me with anything? I’m apparently a “child of satan” now (except not, since there is no satan either). I thought I wasn’t supposed to be able to handle life… seems like I’m doing just fine. It’s called having rational thought, maturity, and the ability to plan ahead. You don’t need religion for that.

    The problem is that Christianity tears people down and tries to convince them that they NEED religion to not be miserable, but it is just not true.

    • The problem with the atheist is that their eternal soul is damned, although an atheist doesn’t believe that either!! True Christians do not have a religion they have Christ as their Lord and Saviour and follow the teachings of Christ in the new testament of the Bible.

  90. There are so many comments on this thread. Yeshua said “by their fruits you will know them”. The fruits of the Spirit are listed in several places – the main one is Love – Love your enemies and friends. Find agreement, not separation. Bless one another not curse them.
    The Devil knows scripture and often quotes it. He is the whisperer, the liar. (and we all know the best lies have a grain of truth).

    Thank you for this excellent thought provoking thread. May G-d bless you on your continued journey in Him

  91. Debbie Abbott proves you can go full potato and still be a master of copy and paste.

    • For at the name of Jesus EVERY knee WILL bend and EVERY tongues confess that Jesus is Lord to the Glory of God. Phil 2:10-11

  92. That folks go to heaven as soon as they die, or there looking down from heaven. The bible says the dead no nothing.
    Also people say it doesn’t matter what day we worship God. The bible says it is a clear sign to him that you worship on the holy sabbath.

    • You got the first part right. The second part not so much. All through it, it say exactly the opposite as the sabbath is a day of rest. I don’t know about you but getting 4 kids ready is anything but restful. Secondly God never demanded anything but the first. But the command was to rest is why we go to church on Sunday.

    • Hi Eric Yeshua said it does not matter which day because he said people say one day is more holy than another. However the recommendation to rest on a weekly Sabbath I have found amazing – again I know pastors who choose to rest on a Tuesday or a Thursday because it fits their schedule better (they clearly cannot on a Sunday because they are working)

      • Rob, I will not condem your choosing to worship on Saturday. Although doing so is not in the Scriptures. ” the sabbath was made for man,not man for the sabbath.” We never claws that Sunday was anything but the first. You can choose any day to go.

        • Eric I don’t formally worship on a Saturday. The scriptures tell us that every day should be given to G-d. So I choose to let my whole life be worshipping Him though I meet with my congregation at 4pm on a Sunday. :-). Be blessed!

          • Rob. I wish you the best brother, in all you do. You seem to be a lover of the truth. May God bless your journey in that path.

  93. I am a devout Christian. I love the Lord Jesus. I have to say that it’s very upsetting to read comments from folks who have left Christianity or don’t want to receive Christ and it’s thanks to all the bickering back and forth. Yes, everyone is responsible for their own actions and the decision to receive Christ and repent of sin is everyone’s personal decision. But I have to say, it’s heart breaking to see that we as Christians would rather argue or as some put it “have a discussion” with each other rather than seeing and loving the folks that this type of thing scares away from Christianity. To those folks who do not want to receive Christ as a result of reading all of this bickering, I sincerely apologize. This is not the way Christians should be acting and to those acting that way, you need to stop. Look at what you’re doing. To all the non Christians who commented or read all of this, I am deeply sorry. Jesus loves every one of you and wants you to come to him. He will change your life. The truth needs to be told and yes the salvation message needs to be shared. Heaven and hell both need to be talked about. But if you want to bicker, please do it privately. Loving God, loving our neighbor and sharing the gospel are way more important than these discussions. I won’t argue with anyone I just want to say that I love all of you. Both believers and non believers.

    • AMEN! My sentiments exactly. The comments here are a disgrace. As a child, my favorite hymn was “You will know they are Christians by their love.” As an adult, I have discovered that the reality is that you will know they are Christians by their bickering. These comments will do far more harm than the original article will do good, and in my opinion, should be deleted before any other non-believer has the misfortune to read them.

  94. Here’s a couple common misconceptions.

    The sabbath is now Sunday.


    Swine and shellfish are now OK to eat.

    If this is true, then God’s law has changed, which means we have violated Deut. 13.

    This is not to say that salvation depends on these things, bit if we truly want to walk as Jesus did and sin as little as possible, shouldn’t these things also be taken into account?

    • No one ever said Sunday is the Sabbath. Technically it would go fr fri at sunset till sat at sunset. It was against the commandments to work or do anything on the sabbath. Btw it’s the only commandment that didn’t make it to the New Testament. That’s why we traditionally go to church on Sunday. As far as the diet. It’s not really healthy but acts 11:7-12 the messenger of the Lord told Peter that no food should be considered defiled.

      • Yes that is true, the sabbath is Friday at sunset to Saturday at sunset. What do you mean by “didn’t make it” to the new testament? Also, that chapter of Acts is explained earlier in Acts 10:28. The vision was about people, not food. The Talmud of the Jews forbid associating with gentiles, however there is no such command in the Torah.

        • The keeping of the sabbath isn’t in the NT. I can only assume that Christ knew it wouldn’t be possible in our time. He himself broke it. The forbidding of mingling among non Jews was to keep out foreign ideas or “demons” from his people, it’s much along the same way the believers aren’t to be “unequally yoked” with non believers. Yes a demon btw isn’t some little scary dude. It’s simply something that’s foregin like a god,ideal or even a person. Feel free to look that up. It will help you understand better I believe. why is it not mentioned in the other one. I honestly have no clue but I would make a suggestion. Find a real rabbi and email him. He may provide the best answer concerning the Talmud and Torah

  95. 1. Mostly correct. But sinners are told to repent, the lazy are told to earn their own living, and Christians are told to purify themselves.
    5. A paraphrase of 1 Corinthians 10:13.
    7. Nitpicking over a technicality. Remember Job.
    8. Another nitpick. Angel can also mean spirit/”ghost”. Acts 12:15. In any case, we shall be LIKE the angels. Matthew 22:30.
    9. Is correct, but if I wanted to be as technical as the writer of this article, I could quote 2 Corinthians 5:10.

  96. I would like to add “follow your heart” to the above statements. The Bible really tells us the opposite. For example in Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?”

  97. The Bible doesn’t lay out a heaven-hell dichotomy, so add that to the list.

    • It would be fascinating to know which Bible you read that “doesn’t have a heaven/hell dichotomy.”

  98. I would like to focus on your comments on points #3, 6 and 9, which I feel are unfortunately wholly misguided.

    3. We’re all God’s children
    6. We all worship the same God
    9. We’re all going to the same place when we die

    Jesus came with a message of peace and love for all of mankind. That message has been twisted into a message of intolerance and hate. Ironically, you have more in common with the Muslim extremists that you hate so much than a true Christian who follows the SPIRIT of Christ. I am a Baha’i, like Ann-Marie, who posted earlier. Baha’i’s do not reject Jesus and Baha’i’s like Ann-Marie have not ‘left’ Christianity. In addition to accepting the glorious teachings of Jesus, we accept and honor Baha’u’llah as the return of Jesus. If you doubt our beliefs, then I encourage you to investigate Baha’u’llah and his teachings for yourself. His was a message of universal love and kindness to your fellow man. He taught:

    1. The Oneness of God
    2. The Oneness of Mankind
    3. Elimination of all Prejudice
    4. Equality of Men and Women
    5. Harmony Between Religion and Science
    6. Independent Investigation of Truth
    7. Progressive Revelation

    It makes no sense to me that an Omniscient and Omnipotent God would send down messengers with conflicting messages. Baha’u’llah taught that Jesus was one of several Manifestations of God, including Abraham, Krishna (Hinduism), Zoroaster (Zoroastrianism), Buddha (Buddhism), Moses (Judaism), Mohammed(Islam), the Bab (Babiism), Baha’u’llah (Baha’i), all of whom taught the SAME essential spiritual teaching: Love God and Love your Fellow Man.

    The differences in their teachings are the temporal teachings which are specifically meant for the era in which each Manifestation has come AS WELL as the ever evolving spiritual capacity of mankind. Each Manifestation abrogates previous laws which are no longer valid and replaces those laws with new laws that are better suited for their own time. For example, the story of Abraham nearly sacrificing Isaac illustrates the elimination of human sacrifice that Abraham taught. Jesus abrogated the Kosher laws of the Jewish Faith and did away with animal sacrifice. Baha’u’llah introduced the Equality of Women and abolished prejudice and slavery.

    In short, Baha’i’s believe in one loving God who loves all his children and instructs us clearly over and over again to love each other. Here is a link illustrating the Golden Rule as outlined by all the previously mentioned Manifestations:


    Since there is only one God, it is also logical that we all worship the same God, but connect to that God through the teachings and spirit of different messengers that God has sent. We may have different names and perspectives on that one God, but that doesn’t mean we are worshiping different Gods!

    Lastly, all babies are born into the same world, albeit in vastly different circumstances, such as poverty and wealth, physical attributes, etc. Similarly, we all pass on to the next world (one world, not many) with the spiritual qualities we have garnered for that world on this Earth. When Jesus says that he is the Way, what He means is that by following His Spirit and Teachings, you can grow closer to God and achieve ‘Heaven’ in the next world. In the worlds of Baha’u’llah:

    O SON OF BEING! Thy Paradise is My love; thy heavenly home, reunion with Me. Enter therein and tarry not. This is that which hath been destined for thee in Our kingdom above and Our exalted dominion.

    Thus, heaven and hell are not separate places but rather representations of one’s level of spiritual attainment.

  99. Many forget these next three words after Jesus’ statement as well as the first two and it makes a world of difference!

    “THEY SAY……an eye for an eye and
    a tooth for a tooth.
    “BUT I SAY……turn the other cheek.

  100. Baptism is necessary for salvation.. hence the the robber on the cross had to be lied to by Jesus.

    • baptism is not a requirement for salvation. Accepting Christ into your heart and life and repenting of your sins is !! Baptism is the showing of a person who has accepted Christ and is ready and willing to follow in His teachings!! Baptism alone will not get a person into Heaven!! Nor will just being a good person on earth ( doesn’t murder, doesn’t lie , steal or cheat anyone) get you into Heaven!!

  101. “No judgment, or dont judge me”
    1 Corinthians 5:12-13

    12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

  102. Don’t forget Dave Ramsey’s “it’s your spiritual duty to accumulate as much money as possible”.

    • The words of Jesus are clear: he came to give us full life, not full coffers. (John 10:10; Matthew 19:21). Jesus spent the majority of his ministry bringing hope to the poor, the crippled, and the mourning. (Matthew 5:3-12). As best as I see in scripture, Christ only distinguished between the rich and the poor for the purpose of warning the rich of their impending doom. (Luke 12:16-20). He told one rich young ruler to stop living by legalistic principles in an effort to earn God’s favor, and to go and sell everything he had, give it all to the poor, and follow him—a poor retirement plan, indeed. (Matthew 19:21; Mark 10:17-27).

      • Debbie…thank you so much for your comments to this discussion. This whole discussion has defiantly been thought provoking and educational. I don’t agree with several of the comments but each person has added something that is very interesting. As we continue to study scripture, I’m sure some of this discussion will become more clear. God bless y’all!

  103. Many of these posts are just hateful! I scrolled forever looking for more unbiblical statements that Christians commonly use because that is what the intent of comments were supposed to be. Thank goodness for God’s grace to help us all with our pride & judgements we have for one another. Peace be to you all

  104. The explanations in 3 and 6 are wrong; they are misconstrued beliefs in themselves. The discussion under #9 also wanders away from scripture and into misconstrued belief.

  105. I read the article and hoped to find some “additions” to the list, as the author suggested. Instead I found a lot of people wasting a lot of time and energy debating theology with people they don’t know.

  106. If I overlooked it among all of these extraneous comments, I apologize, but I grew up hearing, “Moderation in all things.” It was often used to justify almost any activity, as long as the person was doing it in moderation, whatever that might mean. I thank God often for electronic Bibles that make it easy to search for specific phrases such as this. I actually almost used that “quote” in a novel I was writing. It’s a good thing I always cite! The closest I found is “Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.” (Philippians 4:5 KJV) Thank you for this article. I’ve often thought that we sometimes quote man’s “wisdom” more often than God’s revelation. The only answer is to get in the word and, as you suggest, “search the Scriptures.” (Acts 17:11)

  107. How bout “ask Jesus into your heart”…not in the Bible or “you receive the Spirit as soon as you believe”…even the Devils believe (James 2:19$ but they do not have the Spirit.

    • I was just about to add a similar comment. Thanks, Kimberly. That one drives me crazy! “Accept the Lord” – not in the Bible. “Give your heart to Jesus” – ditto. I refer to it as Christian jargon, and it has misled so many people.

    • Don’t know the original Greek or Hebrew, but the Bible does speak of “believing” in different ways. “Enoch was commended as having pleased God, and without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe not only that he exists but that he rewards those who seek him”. Certainly the demons believe both these things, but here “believing” is used almost interchangeably with faith–the kind of faith that saves and draws us near to God. At salvation, which comes through this faith-believing, we do receive the Spirit. Haha, there’s my lazy opinion, without exegeting anything or finding more support. It’s 3:00 AM 😛

  108. I think the most common phrase cited but which actually is not what the Bible says is this, “To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord”. It is a distortion, both textually and theologically of Paul’s statement that he is “willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord”. Actually, nowhere does the Bible literallyplace the personal conscious presence of a human being anywhere but in embodied form. Nor does it send men to be in the presence of God directly when they die. All of that is an imaginary theology, predicated upon the false doctrine of the immortality of the soul. Paul expressly says in the same passage that he is not desiring to be “unclothed” as in absent from having a body, but to lay aside the current mortal body to obtain his heavenly glorified body. This does not take place at death, but at the resurrection, which numerous other allusions in the passage also make abundantly clear is what he is referring to.

  109. This iS like going to an ISIS meeting without the beheadings (yet). After bein around such wonderful Christians, I for one woud rather follow nothing than end up like some of these/you so called followers of Jesus.

  110. “FOllow your heart”-um…..no. The heart is deceitful above ALL things!

  111. #5. No that is true… God will not allow you to be tempted beyond your ability to handle it 1 Corinthians 10:13.

    Also a major thing that Christians believe that isn’t biblical is that God does everything… God does not cause everything in this world and we just don’t understand his reasons (1 John 1:5, James 1:13, John 15:15)… very very wrong… If you believe that you end up not trusting God and trust in something else. A lot of people say “well you just trust him anyway” this is an ignorant and dumb statement… Trust is not something you decided or don’t decide to have its a result of how you believe… If you believe that God may do something that you find harmful to you (sickness, death, etc.) then your natural result will be that you won’t trust him. You don’t have a choice in the matter…

    For example if I babysat your kids one evening and let one of them die, you definitely would not trust me with your kids anymore! You could decide to let me watch them despite your lack of faith/trust in me, but doing that doesn’t mean you trust me… The idea that you can trust someone you think may cause you harm is absurd and illogical… It’s just a dumb thing church has been saying for a long time that sounds holy… Your actions don’t define trust, what you believe does.

  112. Firstly, anybody arguing that the bible is the word of God is wrong, no ifs, ands, or buts, you’re wrong
    I know this as fact, because as an eternal, all knowing, all wise and never before seen being God cannot possibly have written the bible in any of it’s versions which means that when “moses recieved the ten commandments” he cuda wrote what ever the fuck he wanted to, and same goes for any other prophet, apostle, disciple and any other person who contributed to the Bible’s wording
    Also you’re all arguing anyway so you’re all going to hell for having (what is essentially) a verbal war
    And also, I’m goong to hell for sitting here, judging all you’re retarded selves, so lets meet up where the brimstone boils and have a big fat doobie together 🙂

  113. For the so called charismatics this is their favorite command when dealing with bad spirits desception, ” I rebuke you satan, get out “. Believing the demon disturbing or even possessing a person is satan himself which is NOT. It’s because GOD is only the ONE that is everywhere.

    • I think when people address Satan, they’re appealing to the demon’s authority figure, the prince of demons. It’s probably fair and effective to rebuke the presence of Satan’s authority, since we generally don’t know the names of other demons.

  114. One I was raised on but do not believe due to no back up the of Scripture: Anyone who commits suicide goes to Hell.

    • Shari: They have broken one of the Ten Commandments. Their last act was murder. They died a sinner.

      • ALL people have sinned, but if they accept Jesus as Lord and Savior (who gave His life so that ALL MAY live eternally with Him) and ask Him for forgiveness will be forgiven. There is only ONE sin that will prevent you from living in Heaven. That sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit as evidenced by the following Scriptures:

        Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come (Matthew 12:31-32).

        Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation—because they said, “He has an unclean spirit” (Mark 3:28-30).

        And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven (Luke 12:10).

        Referring to Matthew 12:31 Jesus says, “And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.” Consider the background of this verse. In chapter 11 certain Jewish cities rejected Jesus. Also, John the Baptist raised serious doubts about Jesus because his expectations were not fulfilled. Matthew 12:31,32 refers to the most serious rejection of Jesus-the rejection of the Pharisees.

        One of the rejection episodes is in the Beelzebub story (Matthew 12:22-37). It begins when Jesus heals a blind mute. The frightening thing for the Jewish leaders is that the people are so enthused by the miracle that they begin to wonder out loud if Jesus might not be “the Son of David”-that is, the Messiah (vs. 23).

        The frustrated Pharisees cannot deny the reality of the miracle, but they can deny that it came from God. Their solution is that Jesus is in league with the “prince of demons” (vs. 24).

        Jesus immediately takes the offensive by telling them that if He were curing people through the power of demons, then Satan’s kingdom would be divided against itself and would be in ruins (vss. 25-28). Jesus argues that actually, he is the devil’s greatest enemy. He likens Himself to a thief who ties a strong man up so he can raid his house (vs. 29). In other words, Jesus the Christ (God with us) has invaded the territory of “the prince of this world” (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11) to rescue God’s children.

        The climax of the confrontation in the Beelzebub story comes in Matthew 12:30-32. In this passage Jesus not only warns His hearers that there is no neutrality in the great struggle between good and evil, but He goes on to say that anyone who credits the work of God to the devil has committed the unpardonable sin (vs. 31). While it is technically true that people can speak against the Son and still be forgiven, they cannot do so and be forgiven if they are under the conviction of the Holy Spirit that Jesus is the Messiah. To do so would be to reject the prompting of the Holy Spirit in their heart and mind. The result is a hardened conscience (1 Timothy 4:2); Titus 1:15) that can no longer respond to the Spirit’s work of leading people to repent of and confess their sin (John 16:8). Such rejecters are beyond the reach of God’s Spirit, for they have tuned out the only channel through which God can reach them. When that is done, they are beyond hope. They have committed the unforgivable sin.

        Many sensitive Christians worry that they have committed the unpardonable sin. The very fact that they are concerned is an indication that they are still listening for the Spirit and desire to respond to Him. Frederick Bruner is right on target when he writes, “the spirit of the sin against the Spirit is an unworried adamancy. It is impenitence, the unwillingness to repent… It is not careless acts, it is a hardened state” (Bruner, 1:462).

        Jesus goes on to claim that the true state of people can be told by the words that come out of their mouths (Matthew 12:33-37). Such a truth does not bode well for the Pharisees, whose mouths have recently set forth the view that Jesus’ actions were inspired by the devil rather than God. If they continue in that line, Matthew 12:22-37 implies, they will eventually commit the unpardonable sin.

  115. It is amazing to see the delusions the devil has deceived people into believing.

  116. #4 is incorrect. Paul says in Acts 17:28-29 that we are God’s Offspring. Offspring = children.

  117. Everything happens for a reason. Some things happen because we live in an imperfect world, Don’t blame God for worldly happenings, just put it at the foot of the cross and He will help you through it.

  118. When I read the bible, I can sense it is making the inner man/or my spirit stronger. Have read comments above how the bible is in incomplete or lacking. My answer to this is. The bible isn’t a intellectual exercise. It’s a living book and the word of God. Those who would attack it, have fallen into the the hands of the author of confusion…the liar & thief of your soul.

    The Lord has conquered with his great love, and redeemed us with his blood. He is victorious & deserves all the glory,our worship & praise. In this fallen world.

  119. I find it sad that an article about Christians has turned into an attack on various religions. In my heart I KNOW that God and His Son Jesus Christ truly desire for us to go forth with love and kindness for our fellow brothers and sisters, not attack and argue one with another. I am a happy Mormon. I have friends who are happy Catholics, happy Methodists, happy Baptists, happy Jews, and happy Muslims. Let’s do away with all the misunderstandings. Let us remember the two great commandments in Matthew 22:36-40, to love